Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:
Well this should generate some comments.

What is with all the posts by everyone wanting to preach to the world lately?  I guess it is just a trend.  They all mean well, but we are sure getting a lot of them.

It's the giving season.

Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:
Well this should generate some comments.

Modeling/being a Model Photographer is dangerous, because life is not safe....

I don't know if that is as good as my last one, but it is a try...

Master Image Photograph wrote:
what about the man checking ref of the model- aside from good looks she could be a nut case ....

I thought they usually did check references... If they don't, they should.

(

Kimmy275 wrote:

I thought they usually did check references... If they don't, they should.

(

Master Image Photograph wrote:
I say for all you models out there, that as a male photographr of 7 years and a father of two and husband, In this day and age....I stand as much to loose as a man out there today than any model- all a model has to do is yell Rape- or he made me do something...and the  cops are on your door step- even when it's not true...the benifit always goes to the woman

For the most part I agree with your statements.  Women need to take responsibility for their actions and research situations before getting into them.  No argument there.

But the benefit DOES NOT always go to the woman.  Yes, if you file charges, the police and justic system have to follow through, but ask a few women who have tried to press charges for rape and find out how they were treated by the justice system.  In some ways, attempting to press rape charges amounts to being violated again.  Besides rehashing the incident and going through the rape kit examination, there is still a lot of tendency to blame the woman. ex. It wasn't rape,; she provoked it; she set herself up for it by going somewhere with a strange man; if she's a "model," she's probably really a whore anyway...

Therein lies the reason most rapes are never reported.

Lapis wrote:

Modeling/being a Model Photographer is dangerous, because life is not safe....

I don't know if that is as good as my last one, but it is a try...

It's not safe to drive down your street in your car.....

But the message is clear and a good one....

Ed Burns Photography wrote:
News Flash:

A woman doesn't need to be a model to cry rape.  All she has to do is be alone with you.  Just ask any cable guy, UPS guy, doctor, landlord, plumber, cop, etc, etc (lawyers don't count, because it's a well known fact that they screw everybody).  Hell, even husbands can be accused of rape by their wives.

The reality though, is that cops aren't just one-sided idiots that will take the word of one party involved and not investigate it.  For them to "come knocking on your door", they need to have at least SOME evidence.  That said, if you keep your working relationships well within the professoinal boundaries that they should be, then you probably won't have to worry about Bubba unwrapping your package next Christmas in a 10x10 cell. 

Fortunately, the number of women that would have the audacity to make a false accusation is probably pretty small (provided they're not REALLLLY pissed off at you).  If you cross that boundary though and piss them off as well, then you're on your own and better keep the number of a good attorney handy.

spoken like a true professional....

Not sure if your post was ment as a slam to me, I hope not, if so it shows the complex make up of how you think verses a standard guy or photog.,

I'm not hear to aurgue I'm here to tell you that if you follow the 10 guidlines, you will have a better than average chance in have a great time and making new frineds, and getting some realy nice work- but I don't know maybe we all should be worried about the next person we piss off- after all drive by shootings on the 405 have been known to happen for less than that-

So if any of you, models or photographers out there are prone to violence or under the care of a phyciatric dr. please don't call me for a shoot or advice-

For the rest of us, use common sense- I think we are or should be on the same boat----

theda wrote:

For the most part I agree with your statements.  Women need to take responsibility for their actions and research situations before getting into them.  No argument there.

But the benefit DOES NOT always go to the woman.  Yes, if you file charges, the police and justic system have to follow through, but ask a few women who have tried to press charges for rape and find out how they were treated by the justice system.  In some ways, attempting to press rape charges amounts to being violated again.  Besides rehashing the incident and going through the rape kit examination, there is still a lot of tendency to blame the woman. ex. It wasn't rape,; she provoked it; she set herself up for it by going somewhere with a strange man; if she's a "model," she's probably really a whore anyway...

Therein lies the reason most rapes are never reported.

Ummmm- I could really go into some personal information about myself here- lets just say, do any of you think for a second that a woman is the only one who is capable of bein molested or raped or hurt? men get slapped in movies all the time and I suspect in real life but we can
't defend ourselves otherwise there are a dozen women's agengies out there that are ran by feminists, to help the woman, the man can get abused and I have so I'll just leave it at that-

Any smart comments as a result of my honesty here, will show your true colors so don't even go there-

Men are vulnerable too- that is all my point is- refrences or not-

Ed Burns Photography wrote:
News Flash:

A woman doesn't need to be a model to cry rape.  All she has to do is be alone with you.  Just ask any cable guy, UPS guy, doctor, landlord, plumber, cop, etc, etc (lawyers don't count, because it's a well known fact that they screw everybody).  Hell, even husbands can be accused of rape by their wives.

theda wrote:
For the most part I agree with your statements.  Women need to take responsibility for their actions and research situations before getting into them.  No argument there.

But the benefit DOES NOT always go to the woman.  Yes, if you file charges, the police and justice system have to follow through, but ask a few women who have tried to press charges for rape and find out how they were treated by the justice system.  In some ways, attempting to press rape charges amounts to being violated again.  Besides rehashing the incident and going through the rape kit examination, there is still a lot of tendency to blame the woman. ex. It wasn't rape,; she provoked it; she set herself up for it by going somewhere with a strange man; if she's a "model," she's probably really a whore anyway...

Therein lies the reason most rapes are never reported.

The justice system tends to be quite harsh on rape victims in general, agreed. However, society as a whole (at least western) if far less tolerant of the crime then what the justice system is perceived as being. Accusing someone is often enough to bring the accused's like to a crashing halt, even if the accused is found not guilty they are often branded for life.

I DO NOT want to minimize the trauma rape actually is, I've helped put a friend back together after.  I did wanted to point out that false accusations can be very damaging as well, and society as a whole does not treat the crime lightly these days.

Leaf in the Wind wrote:

The justice system tends to be quite harsh on rape victims in general, agreed. However, society as a whole (at least western) if far less tolerant of the crime then what the justice system is perceived as being. Accusing someone is often enough to bring the accused's like to a crashing halt, even if the accused is found not guilty they are often branded for life.

I DO NOT want to minimize the trauma rape actually is, I've helped put a friend back together after.  I did wanted to point out that false accusations can be very damaging as well, and society as a whole does not treat the crime lightly these days.

I'm not hear to talk about our legal system, I have been a victom as others have been in many ways which I won't go into now-
I know that innocent people are hung out to dry and I know guilty get away-
But that is not what this post is about-

The post was a continuing post from a girl who asked a question on the newbies page- I guess a moderator moved my statment to general, so then I just copied over my original statements to this new post-

The bottom line is we are all human beings, at least most of us- we all have to get along in this world and try and love thy neihbor....
Look for reasons to like a person not, hate them....and that's my words on the subject-

Master Image Photograph wrote:
Ummmm- I could really go into some personal information about myself here- lets just say, do any of you think for a second that a woman is the only one who is capable of bein molested or raped or hurt? men get slapped in movies all the time and I suspect in real life but we can
't defend ourselves otherwise there are a dozen women's agengies out there that are ran by feminists, to help the woman, the man can get abused and I have so I'll just leave it at that-

Any smart comments as a result of my honesty here, will show your true colors so don't even go there-

Men are vulnerable too- that is all my point is- refrences or not-

Not sure if I'm entirely certain what all you're getting at here, but...

Certainly men are vulnerable to sexual assault, but women make up the vast majority of sexual assault victims.  It's also worth noting that frequently men who have been sexually assaulted suffer a greater degree of post traumatic stress after such an assault. 

Women also make up the majority of victims of other forms of physical assault.  I actually have no objection to smackin' the bitch back and I've known a couple of men to be charged with hitting back and stigmatized over it.  Part of this lies in the fact that men are on average stronger than women and so it's assumed that they are more able to defend themselves and less likely to suffer serious physicial injury.  And while on the subject, I know women jailed for domestic violence charges aginst their husbands, too.  In one case, the husband was in a drunken rage so the wife picked up a knife because she was scared and he grabbed the blade and cut his hands. No feminist agencies ever rushed to her defense.

Angelo Lorenzo  wrote:
As a protection measure I have models sign a release at the end of a shoot that says I acted with good and professional conduct. If you or anyone else decides to do the same thing, then add some initial lines for assistants or make up artist, etc to sign as whitnesses. It's good legal protection especially in a he-said-she-said situation.

Darn good idea, thanks for that_ and I guess even if no one acted in an inappropriate way but the model butted heads with you because she didn't agree with how you conducted your photo shoot then I guess she won't sign it and give you an unprovoked bad rep by talking smack about you to others....

UCPhotog wrote:
Blah, blah, blah.... lots of preaching...

The only part I take offense to is the part of you being a husband and father.
< coming from a man this is really par for the course>   Does that indicate that those of us who are not married or do not have children have any less to lose or are more likely to act in an unprofessional manner?

hell no man...jesus, y'can't please anyone these days, look....I can't speak to every single pesons individual situation- remember what I said, take the person on their own merrets- don't judge least yee be judged, talking about preaching-

I'm a male, so when I'm out by myself no one knows if I'm married, kids, or gay for all they know and care- as long as I conduct myself according to the laws of the land and human decency at least 51% then I'm good to go and so are you-

get of the little trip about being a single man, ....stop trying to find a splinter in a discussion that causes further seperation from the main topic-

Another note (really for a lot of folks, but maybe it's because I have a few extra minutes to type it), but this isn't personal, just a pet peeve - folks, if you're not the best speller, how about writing in another program with a spell checker and then pasting into the forum? IMHO it makes someone (at least those whose count English as their first language) look a bit less professional when their post is full of spelling, grammatical and puntuational errors. A typo here or there is one thing; using words inappropriately (my favorite is effect and affect - effect is a noun, affect is a verb - you create an effect for the picture with lights; you affect the exposure with lights) just looks like you have a few less IQ points.

I'm betting this will generate some response - again, it's not to anyone specific, I just see so much of it on this and other forums. Pet peeves - what a bitch.

UCPhotog wrote:
Blah, blah, blah.... lots of preaching...

The only part I take offense to is the part of you being a husband and father. Does that indicate that those of us who are not married or do not have children have any less to lose or are more likely to act in an unprofessional manner?

Another note (really for a lot of folks, but maybe it's because I have a few extra minutes to type it), but this isn't personal, just a pet peeve - folks, if you're not the best speller, how about writing in another program with a spell checker and then pasting into the forum? IMHO it makes someone (at least those whose count English as their first language) look a bit less professional when their post is full of spelling, grammatical and puntuational errors. A typo here or there is one thing; using words inappropriately (my favorite is effect and affect - effect is a noun, affect is a verb - you create an effect for the picture with lights; you affect the exposure with lights) just looks like you have a few less IQ points.

I'm betting this will generate some response - again, it's not to anyone specific, I just see so much of it on this and other forums. Pet peeves - what a bitch.

point taken...but htis is not a grammer class or forum- artistic people and those who are passionate about what they talk about, type what they are thinking as best as they can- I am not going to worry about some stranger who I most likely will never meet and be concerned about my spelling....ROFLMOA are you kidding-
I don't nor anyone in here has to cater to someone elses analness (sp)? lol

theda wrote:

Not sure if I'm entirely certain what all you're getting at here, but...

Certainly men are vulnerable to sexual assault, but women make up the vast majority of sexual assault victims.  It's also worth noting that frequently men who have been sexually assaulted suffer a greater degree of post traumatic stress after such an assault. 

Women also make up the majority of victims of other forms of physical assault.  I actually have no objection to smackin' the bitch back and I've known a couple of men to be charged with hitting back and stigmatized over it.  Part of this lies in the fact that men are on average stronger than women and so it's assumed that they are more able to defend themselves and less likely to suffer serious physicial injury.  And while on the subject, I know women jailed for domestic violence charges aginst their husbands, too.  In one case, the husband was in a drunken rage so the wife picked up a knife because she was scared and he grabbed the blade and cut his hands. No feminist agencies ever rushed to her defense.

Well there always going to be exceptions- I have never hot a woman or beat anyone up that is a woman- I have however had a woman who is now my ex- hit me with an iron, the kind you iron clothes with, she was angry because I was joking about this band called salt and pepa- I jokingly called them salt and peper *
No one had been drinking, ( I don't drink anyway) she was just being a bitch-
and could not take a joke, so I called the cops on her, at first without much disgussion they started over at me and was going to put me in cuffs, then I said hold on a damn minute I'm the one who called you and I have the blood on my head to prove it, she has no marks and she admitted hitting me-

Now does that make everyone happy- a weapon can even things our pretty damn quick and a kick to the groin or a fingernail to the eye socket or a blow to the throat can even things out quickly-

I don't care to hear anything about odds or on average- you have to take each individual  situation and look at it on it's own marrets we get into lots of trouble when we lump groups of people and sexes together-

Case by case basis-