I'm thinking about trying to get a website going, that is more for artful nudes. What I want to know is, what type of compensation do most models and photographers look for if they shoot for a website?

It would also be open to artists for the purpose of showcasing thier art, digital and otherwise.

I want it to be a community thing and share the profit with the "Showcased" or "Contracted" models and photographers. What are your views on this?

Of course any of the "Showcased" or "Contracted" models and photographers would have thier own pages within the site and have links to thier own sites.

So, if any of you have any input that might make this more attractive to models and photographers or would like to be a part of a site that gives more back to those who contribute art and time, please contact me and help me make this happen.

It really depends on how much money you have to invest before you see a return on your investment.  If you are serious about starting this as a business, it would be nice to see a realistic business on the internet for once.

Some of the more successful examples of this kind of thing aren't particularly model or photographer friendly though.  Take for example the suicidegirls site.  They only offer $300 per set, and they have to be complete sets all retouched etc, with full copyrights signed over to SG.  I personally find this offensive as a photographer I wouldn't sign over full copyright of anything I shoot unless someone is going to buy my camera for the day and $300 doesn't do it.  Now if you say $300 for the set, with web reproduction rights exclusively signed over to the site for two years...that would be more realistic.  You could also sell prints by proxy having the photographers choose photos that they allow to be clicked on to be added to a shopping cart, accept payment on the photographer's behalf, and then when you receive notice that the photos have been shipped, you send them their payment with a small administrative fee ($5/sale?)

I have millions of ideas for a site like this, and I'm sure you'll get plenty, but maybe consider in hiring a consultant to answer them all.  Sure you'll have to pay, but the advice you receive will be better than what you get online.

A photog from MM wrote:

I'm interested in shooting for your site if you decide to go forward with it. It's a little hard to tell from your post. Were you considering starting a real business where you actually pay a fee to the models and photographers to produce content for your site. Or were you thinking more along the lines of MM only focused on artistic nudes?

If you were thinking the first option I'd be okay trading my photography services for a share of the proceeds. That way your only out of pocket expense for my shoots would be the model and studio rental ($35 -$50/hr).

My reply:

All in all, David, I'm asking for insight for it. I'd love to have you along and yes it's going to be a pay site, and I'm hoping we all get paid from it. I think in answer to your question I want to pay the "Showcased" or "Contracted" models and photographers a smaller up front fee like you mentioned, and then possibly 25% of the profit divied up among the photogs and 25% of the profit divied up among the models. I'm sure the first year will probably not be very profitable, but I would hope that that will change.

I hope that answers your question. I'll keep in touch and let you know what's going on as I feel the ability to release details.

Thanks for your input, Jaymz

Please get in touch with me about being a contributing photorapher. Thanks!! Steve

Having worked in the "adult" industry from several sides including site operation, credit card processing, and site owner, I thought I would throw some experiences and information out there to make the process as easy as possible for you.

Hosting: Not all  hosts accept adult images. I have seen people lose hosting over one topless image. Let the host know going in that there is going to be adult material on the site even if there isnt going to be adult images. There is good hosts like Micfo.com that allow adult hosting.

Credit Card Processing: Visa and MasterCard changed their policies a couple of years ago to try to stop the online fraud associated with adult sites. They instituted what are called MCC codes. Every type of business is tied to a MCC code and certain businesses like adult and online gaming have high risk designated MCC codes which means that if your site is going to have adult material you are going to have to have high risk designation. Currently with Visa high risk designation requires the following:

1.) $750 application fee plus $350 yearly management fee.
2.) That your processor receive and hold a 20% of sales high risk fee reserve. (You receive pieces of this back over time as your legitimate sales grow.)
3.) That your processor keep a 20% 6 month rolling reserve.
4.) Allows your processor charge you high risk fees on your transactions. This can add $4 to $5 to the cost of your transactions. This money is profit to the processor but is is used to cover your liabilities.

Currently this is only on Visa but expect MasterCard to follow as they tend to follow Visa.

To read more on this visit: http://businesscenter.ccbill.com/visa_ipsp_faq.php

Chargebacks and Retrievals: Most online merchants go into business without a clear underatanding of what these are, yet they are one of the most important things you need to understand as they can dramitically affect your business. A retrieval is a request over the Visa/MasterCard network asking for a signed sales draft. Since it is a internet transaction there is no signed sales draft and more than likely your processor is going to credit the transaction. You are going to pay $15 for this privilage. Retrievals are more common with debit cards. Chargebacks are a whole different monster. A chargeback is a dispute by the cardholder. All a cardholder has to do is say that their dog, cat, kid, girlfriend, neighbor did the transaction and the card issuing bank is going to issue a chargeback. With a chargeback the funds are taken from you over the network and given back to the cardholder. You are charged $25 for this privilage. As part of your merchant agreement you are required to keep a low chargeback ratio (sales-credits+chargebacks). Both the processor and Visa/Mastercard closely monitor your chargeback ratio and if it gets too high they will shut you off and add you to the TMF file. If you are added to the TMF file you will not get processing with anyone. The other side of the coin which most merchants do not know is that chargebacks are disputible by the merchant. Most processors are unwilling to do this for merchants because it is not cost effective, but the issue can be forced directly through Visa/MasterCard which gets the processor in trouble. Another thing to keep in mind is that processors have the ability to battle with Visa/MasterCard on the merchants behalf. Many do not. Another thing to keep in mind is that once you have a high chargeback ratio, you will have a high chargeback ratio for that period forever even if you successfully dispute the chargebacks. This is one issue that I constantly fought with Visa over. Also keep in mind that disputing chargebacks can get expensive. It goes back and forth 3 times and then goes to arbitration with Visa/MasterCard. Arbitration costs $250. I have taken many to arbitration and won. One of Visa/MasterCards punishments is called a "bother fee" which can be very expensive. I need to start charging bother fees.

Hackers/site thiefs/posters: Be aware that there is people out there who's hobby is to get into your site without paying. Several of the known processors have been hacked. Also there is software out there right now that attacks your password database and gives them working passwords. There is also people out there who will gain access one way or another and post your whole site to a BBS. This is why we closly monitor certain BBS's.

Each site is different in how they handle work of other people. Some sites get the sets for free and then give the contributor a percentage of sales, while others pay a set fee for each set provided. Looking at this thread you need to look at this since you are going to have expenses which need to be covered. The whole point of a site is profit. If you are not making one it is kind of pointless.

If you have any questions, comments, or need assistance pm me. I would like to see you make a success out of this. I am tired of seeing the foreign sites make it.

No way would I give up the copyrights to nude art photos for 50% of the take on a speculative unproven website. Even when I shoot for a known stock agency, I don't give up the copyright. I may give them exclusive rights to market the image for a specific time period, but even then I retain the copyright. If you have no track record, I probably wouldn't even consider giving you exclusive license rights, much less copyright. Similarly, when a gallery shows my art photos and takes 50%, I still retain all other rights to the image and photos outside of the contract for that specific show, and a gallery would never dream of asking the photographer to sign over their copyrights. I don't mean to disparage you personally. You may be a perfectly decent guy. But I doubt you'll get many real good photographers to take you up on it.

I can help you open a site if you are interested and your content is good. You can contact me privately if you are interested at [email protected]