Patrick Walberg wrote:
If you can show me how it could be "foolproof" and that allow for those with negative reports to refute or answer to the accuser, then sure!

Well like I said, there would have to be the ability for Mods to edit or delete comments, as well as a reply to comments option.   Just as there are always two sides to every story, there is always the ability to tell those two sides.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
I think we all understand how the photographer feels.  Hell its happened
to me too but this model has shot with several well known Chicago photographers.
It really doesn't seem like she's a flake.  Lets not focus on one or two incidents
but is it a pattern?   Consider that she has posted a reponse.  Yes a angry
one but she didn't just let it blow over.  The OP is a excellent photographer and
he will get to shoot with lots of attractive models.  Some of those models will
have issues that may stop them from shooting.  He will have issues at times
too.  Its called life.

I agree with you on the fact that we all have issues in life. What I think the photographer is getting at is, why wait until 5 minutes before shoot time to cancel? There seemed to be ample time for at least a phone call to say "Hey, i'm not gonna make it, can we reschedule?" before he drove almost two hours for a shoot.

aguynamededdy wrote:

I agree with you on the fact that we all have issues in life. What I think the photographer is getting at is, why wait until 5 minutes before shoot time to cancel? There seemed to be ample time for at least a phone call to say "Hey, i'm not gonna make it, can we reschedule?" before he drove almost two hours for a shoot.

Which is one of the reasons i became a touch irate. because if i drove 2 hours to Cleveland and some model cancelled on me when I got to her door, when she could have called the night before, saving me the trouble....

Oh you'd have heard about it.... Possibly on CNN.

i'm kidding about the CNN thing

Looknsee Photography wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, life can get complicated & stuff happens.  This particular occurrence is a data point -- it doesn't represent a trend. 

Sure, I would have been disappointed and perhaps more than a little bit angry to have a last minute no-show, but a model would have to do that to me multiple times before I'd trash her publicly.

I find it funny that we are so forgiving in the iWay world...in the real world this one incident would have been enough to get a model black listed from an entire sector of the industry.  Her agent would have dropped their representation.  Other photographers would not shoot her no matter the rate.  Clients would pull their campaigns featuring her.

Yet here...it's complicated & stuff happens...

Just funny...

Looknsee Photography wrote:
As an uninvolved third party, I'd like to say that I hate getting pulled into stuff like this.

As far as I'm concerned, life can get complicated & stuff happens.  This particular occurrence is a data point -- it doesn't represent a trend. 

Sure, I would have been disappointed and perhaps more than a little bit angry to have a last minute no-show, but a model would have to do that to me multiple times before I'd trash her publicly.  I think using this forum for revenge (and that's how it feels to me) is a bit unprofessional and a bit immature.  Certainly, you are within your rights to talk to her about it -- perhaps she'd make more of an effort to contact you earlier if something like this happens again.  You are also within your rights to put her on your own personal black ball list. 

But trashing her in public is a bit over the line for me.

If she really wanted to make it right with him she should offer to at least split his expenses with him. But instead, she offers a reshoot. As if being graced by her presence should be good enough.

John Jebbia wrote:
If a photographer does something wrong, we're ready to lynch him.. But if a model does something wrong we make excuses because they're so darn cute. How could anything so cute be wrong?

Meanwhile this photographer is sitting around Chicago with his thumb up his ass.

Well lets hope he has small thumbs but I truly understand how he feels and
maybe she could/should have called but if true, she really may have not
thought about it.  I also agree with you models get away with all kinds of
crap.  Even if we had a rating list and a model got tons of negative scores some
of our pros would be looking to shoot her.  Count almost everyone if she was
pretty.  Women rule it ain't always nice but its the truth.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
I think we all understand how the photographer feels.  Hell its happened
to me too but this model has shot with several well known Chicago photographers.
It really doesn't seem like she's a flake.  Lets not focus on one or two incidents
but is it a pattern?   Consider that she has posted a reponse.  Yes a angry
one but she didn't just let it blow over.  The OP is a excellent photographer and
he will get to shoot with lots of attractive models.  Some of those models will
have issues that may stop them from shooting.  He will have issues at times
too.  Its called life.

EXACTLY! 

aguynamededdy wrote:
Patrick Walberg:

Since you're so against a rating system, how do you suggest we establish some form of accountability for both photographers and models?

Is it really needed?

Carrie Johnson wrote:
Sincere apologies for the short notice, and I am fully prepared to compesate for any monitary losses, as I cannot make up for time lost.  You have my contact info - I'd be happy to meet you half-way.
Best Regards,
Carrie

That-a-girl... Now that is professionalism at it's finest.

aguynamededdy wrote:

I agree with you on the fact that we all have issues in life. What I think the photographer is getting at is, why wait until 5 minutes before shoot time to cancel? There seemed to be ample time for at least a phone call to say "Hey, i'm not gonna make it, can we reschedule?" before he drove almost two hours for a shoot.

It's not like she has done this as a habit.  Sure, it's a bummer what happened, but it is an isolated event.

Patrick Walberg wrote:

It also would be wide open for abuse. People working at Yahoo make judgements, E-bay too!  I'm sick and tired of having many online "organizations" judge me aready.  I don't need to be on another one.  Do you?

Well Pat your right--there are abuses but I will take what they give me . Good and bad  because I think it's the bad players we are trying to bring to light . If I get 90 % good fee back that's fine because I know I can't please every one and some people I just don't even care to try. If some one has a 90% bad rating I think I would question their standing.

Carrie Johnson wrote:
Time has past to calm myself.  I agree, a phone call earlier would have been MORE professional on my part - for that I apologize.  However I am not sorry that the situation (which was out of my hands) itself had happened, and I'm not going to apologize for calling to cancel.  I feel that being called a flake is unnecessary and and would never do that to anyone else.  I find that just as unprofessional.  Again, I communicated to Mr. Southard on a daily basis about our shoot over the phone and via e-mail.  He indicated in his initial post that he didn't care about car accidents and sick grandmothers.  I had a photographer who I am working with this saturday tell me some very bad news today that he learned about a family member over the weekend...I told him if he needed to reschedule with me in order to be with family SO BE IT!  Mr. Southard's response might have been something along the lines of, "Tough Shit."

I have maintained FRIENDSHIPS with every photographer I've worked with.  I think gaining friendships is one of the highlights about this industry...the photographers and stylists I've met I've become close with.  I'm sorry that this situation turned out the way it did.  To Mr. Southard:  Sincere apologies for the short notice, and I am fully prepared to compesate for any monitary losses, as I cannot make up for time lost.  You have my contact info - I'd be happy to meet you half-way.
Best Regards,
Carrie

I appreciate your apologies, and with the rapport we have built through emails and phone conversations, I believe you are truly sincere.  My only concern is the time I lost that I could have spent with my wife.  I just wish that you would have called before I had left or driven too far from home.  Other than that, I'm confident in saying you are an excellent model and this was a aberation from your norm.

You are very kind, intelligent, beautifal, and you've added some wonderful new images to your portfolio.  I seriously doubt, sincerely and hope, that this thread won't hinder your future shoots.  In fact, I know that you will have many shoots in the future and great work will be produced during those sessions.

Now I must apologize, because I did not expect this thread to become a powder keg.  My only desire was to document a case where a photographer had been inconvenienced when it could have been easily prevented.  It was very poor etiquitte for me to bring this matter into the forums, and my only excuse is that I have had this happen so many times that Sunday was the proverbial straw on the camel's back.  Again, I'm sorry for handling the matter in this way.

Best wishes and good luck to you.

J. Welborn wrote:

Well Pat your right--there are abuses but I will take what they give me . Good and bad  because I think it's the bad players we are trying to bring to light . If I get 90 % good fee back that's fine because I know I can't please every one and some people I just don't even care to try. If some one has a 90% bad rating I think I would question their standing.

Well Carrie has posted again, and it was good to hear her side.  But me bringing up how E-Bay has a ratings system and I don't like them is a bit ironic since it was not too many threads ago that I defended the use of AOL by professionals online as their address. 

The world is not perfect, and the experiences with models I have had just may not be the same for you or the next photographers.  We all have our own perspective!  True  too, is the fact that many of us are forgiving ... umm who was that model busted for snorting coke?  Lost her contracts, went into rehab, and now is out getting new contracts?  LOL 

Ratings are over rated!  Keep ratings for politicians, not artists.  LOL  I agree with you that if I were "rated" at a 90% approval or positive, that would be nice, but I could careless about trying to please the 10% who give me a negative rating.  It is absolutely impossible to please everyone.  If someone's approval ratings drop down in the area between 37 to 42% ... do we still keep him? 

John Jebbia wrote:

That-a-girl... Now that is professionalism at it's finest.

Yes it was. We must not lose sight that this is a business first and foremost to... Judging by the ports, half of us. lol

Envy wrote:
ugh.. no rating system please. This is why we have referals we check before we shoot with someone. Besides if it works anything like Ebay half the time people are too damn lazy to leave feedback.

there is never going to be a rating system on this site..dont worry about it...

A. K. Southard wrote:
...and the model cancelled 5 minutes before the shoot.  This was 115 minutes after I drove into Chicago, found parking on snow covered streets, and started setting up the lights.

Here are the facts as she presented them:  She went out Saturday, her friend got stuck in the snow, had to call a tow, and she was too tired and her "voice sound[ed] like shit".

The facts as I present them:  She could have called the night before.We were driving the same distance, and knew what time I had to leave; she could have called before I left for the city.  This is time I couldn't spend with my wife because I wasted it on a flake.  I spent money on fuel and depreciation on my vehicle.  I went out Saturday night as well, but was still on location at the predetermined time.

Now, there is a link below for your edification.  For those of you who think it is in poor taste for me to post it--you might be right, but too damned bad.  Your time wasn't wasted. I'm tired of wasting time on last minute cancellations, so I'm going to start posting them. 

I don't care how many grandmother's die on models, or cars that break down, sudden outbreaks of ebola coupled with acne, or if the model was forced into a harum--I'm posting them.  To be fair, I'll post the facts and reasons, and let you decide if the model is worth your time.

For your viewing pleasure, here is some "lava" that I did instead:



https://www.modelmayhem.com/member.php?id=10024

sorry, again, I havent read this thread, I dont have time but my advice anyway

Stop working with webmodels and pay an agency model.  If you can't do that for one reason or another, take the risk, you know it's a risk when you set it up....it always is with a web model.

Star wrote:
Please tell me no drinking was involved in the accident

Absolutely not.  I do not go out and party before I have to be up for a shoot - nor does my schedule -  working full-time, student, modeling allow for much of that anyhow. 

Thanks Alan for the return apology.  I wish you all my best as well.
Carrie

Luther wrote:
Sorry for your bad experience man.  I've been there before.

I think all of us photographers need to charge a non-refundable fee even for TFCD shoots.  If the model shows up and it's TFCD shoot, then refund the money.  This is what Paypal is for.

I have thought about doing this too , I just might try it!