Photographer
TBJ Imaging
Posts: 2416
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, US
...Stacy wrote:
thats Cindy Margolis, not buffy from idaho, not the same thing. Thats like comparing me and angelina Jolie. You are missing the point. Cindy Margolis started with nothing but a few photos. She built it up and made a business out of it. All I am saying is it can be done. For you to say no way....can't be done......well, you are wring. I was just giving Cindy as an example of someone who took a pretty face (girl next door) and made it into a million dollar enterprise. It can be done. This guy on here was saying he was going to start a paysite of non-nude maxim style photos. I tell you what....with the right faces and right marketing plan there is no reason he can't do it. If he chooses to use "buffy from idaho" then no....he wont make it unless Buffy has a great look. Johnny Crosslin could take a bunch of models he works with and start a site. People would pay for the caliber of model. And they do not need to be nude.
Model
Donna Ricci
Posts: 600
Burbank, California, US
...Stacy wrote:
thats Cindy Margolis, not buffy from idaho, not the same thing. Thats like comparing me and angelina Jolie. I'd do you over that white trash nutball anyday
Model
StacyJack
Posts: 2297
New Orleans, Louisiana, US
Thomas B wrote:
You are missing the point. Cindy Margolis started with nothing but a few photos. She built it up and made a business out of it. All I am saying is it can be done. For you to say no way....can't be done......well, you are wring. I was just giving Cindy as an example of someone who took a pretty face (girl next door) and made it into a million dollar enterprise. It can be done. This guy on here was saying he was going to start a paysite of non-nude maxim style photos. I tell you what....with the right faces and right marketing plan there is no reason he can't do it. If he chooses to use "buffy from idaho" then no....he wont make it unless Buffy has a great look. Johnny Crosslin could take a bunch of models he works with and start a site. People would pay for the caliber of model. And they do not need to be nude. ahem, if you read his first post it says he's going to take some unknown girls and start a paysite with "Decent" photos. Thus my point. If that is not his intention, then I am sorry, i missed the gear switch. and I am sure as hell not saying Johnny Crosslin couldnt start a paysight, cause any idiot knows he could. People would pay for a caliber model/Photographer. But that's from a fan base that is already there, pre-existing, so it's Not the same thing!
Model
StacyJack
Posts: 2297
New Orleans, Louisiana, US
Donna Ricci wrote:
I'd do you over that white trash nutball anyday LOL!
Photographer
TBJ Imaging
Posts: 2416
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, US
I think we are almost arguing the same point. I am saying that starting a paysite with an unknown model is something that can be done. Cindy Margolis was not known when she started. She made herself known. If this guy starts with a few unknown models who are high caliber and takes great photos of them.....he could build a great site. It sounded like you and the other model on this thread were saying that there was no way it could be done. I am just saying that I think it can be done. Guys will pay for good looking girls....its a fact. So there is a market. Yes you can see free photos on here but let's be honest....do you really want to look through the bad to get some of the good? If you could pay $10 a month to get high quality.....why not start the business
Model
StacyJack
Posts: 2297
New Orleans, Louisiana, US
I'm sorry, i just don't see why. We agree that you need the right model, and it can't be poo scraped off the bottom of your shoe, But as far as paysights go, sure maybe there's a market for it, but it dosn't seem necessary. "Glamour" is everywhere, if I'm feening for it I'll go look at a perfume add.
It's just not a niche anymore, and I don't think it's marketable without an established fan base. but thats just me. try it, prove me wrong. How the he(( should i know?
Photographer
TBJ Imaging
Posts: 2416
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, US
I don't know......maybe marketing poo from the bottom of your shoe is a good idea. There are a lot of weirdos out there.........could be worth some money.....I could have millions in my backyard (2 golden retrievers)
Wanna start a business with me....lol
Model
StacyJack
Posts: 2297
New Orleans, Louisiana, US
Nope, can't. just opened a poo slinging plant here with my neighbor. Can't overextend myself or it will all come crashing down.
Photographer
TBJ Imaging
Posts: 2416
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, US
...Stacy wrote:
Nope, can't. just opened a poo slinging plant here with my neighbor. Can't overextend myself or it will all come crashing down. Ok....dont come crying to me when I swimming in all my poo money. I wont share!
Model
StacyJack
Posts: 2297
New Orleans, Louisiana, US
Fine! PLBBB!!!
(as long as your rolling in poo MONEY)( but without ME your just going to be rolling in POO!) nyah!
Photographer
TBJ Imaging
Posts: 2416
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, US
...Stacy wrote:
Fine! PLBBB!!!
(as long as your rolling in poo MONEY)( but without ME your just going to be rolling in POO!) nyah! Well....I guess I will just have to settle for poo.
Your fun!
Photographer
Michael Bell
Posts: 925
Anaheim, California, US
...Stacy wrote:
ahem, if you read his first post it says he's going to take some unknown girls and start a paysite with "Decent" photos. Thus my point. If that is not his intention, then I am sorry, i missed the gear switch. and I am sure as hell not saying Johnny Crosslin couldnt start a paysight, cause any idiot knows he could. People would pay for a caliber model/Photographer. But that's from a fan base that is already there, pre-existing, so it's Not the same thing! I was just citing how easy it would be to do that and mentioned the amatuer paysites as reference, I wasnt saying thats what I was going to do  What I am working on now is building a fanbase thru ALOT of promotion and marketing thru various outlets. My website recieves well over 2,000 hits a day and people are starting to become familiar with my models, thats a nice start I think. I will also be collaborating with other websites and companies that are already well established and cross promoting with them and some of their models. It wont just be a one model website, I will have about 6 and I will also have guest models once a month. Most of them will be well known to the Maxim/Playboy crowd I am targeting.
Alot of photographers I have told really like the idea, but are going to sit back and see what happens with my site and how big of a market there is out there. I guess I will be the proverbial guinea pig 
Photographer
Starstruck Foto
Posts: 73
Chicago, Illinois, US
The distinction between being a hobbist and a woking professional is being payed for your art and craft.I routinely do paid testing for most of the better agencies.I personally couldnt afford photography as a hobby.Serious models are more than willing to pay for shoots with seasoned pros that can advance their career by producing images for their books that will get them work or signed.I have never understood the whole TFP concept.For models its basically a waste of time.If a Photog is good enough to actually advance your career then as a working pro he is going to charge for his services.Beginning or amature photogs those willing to shoot TFP most likely havent advanced to a level in their own career to the point that they can pick up a phone and book you an appointment at a major agency.It's kinda like the blind leading the blind.One of the tips I frequently give to young models starting out in the industry is dont waste your time shooting TFP.If you are really serious make the small investment and hire a really good photog,one recommended by a major agency that knows how to make you shine at your best and already has made a name for his or herself.Even if your TFP book does manage to get you interest from an agency they are going to send you to a more established photog for grooming to work on your agency book 90 percent of the time at your own cost.
Model
StacyJack
Posts: 2297
New Orleans, Louisiana, US
I think thats what I said? course mine was more colorful....
Model
StacyJack
Posts: 2297
New Orleans, Louisiana, US
Thomas B wrote:
Well....I guess I will just have to settle for poo.
Your fun! Me or poo?
Photographer
EdBPhotography
Posts: 7741
Torrance, California, US
...Stacy wrote:
Me or poo? Why did Eeyore stick his head in the toilet?
He was looking for Pooh.
My daughter told me that one. I thought it was hilarious.
Photographer
JBPhoto
Posts: 1107
Belleville, Michigan, US
Another reason models don't pay is for every good photog who deserves to be paid, there's 20 GWC's lined up behind him wanting to shoot for free.
Thank God for weddings.
Photographer
DBR_Photography
Posts: 86
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
...Stacy wrote:
why would anyone PAY for maxim styled images? they're EVERYWHERE for free. Including here. Its not exactly a cornered market if it's wide open. Just because the Glamour sites don't exist dosn't make it a good idea, we can see half dressed women making oh faces anywhere we want. Thats like me saying I'm going to start a pay site with high quality photo's of women picking their noses. I'll make a fortune! there won't be another sight like it! While I at first agree with this comment, I remember back in 1992 thinking people were crazy for selling bottled water when the water fountain was just around the corner! It took me a long time to break down and buy a bottle of water, but I do now because the stuff that comes out of the tap is crap. The metaphor does not extend to images of anyone reading this post ;-).
-Daniel Reid
Photographer
T H Taylor
Posts: 6862
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, US
JBPhoto wrote:
Another reason models don't pay is for every good photog who deserves to be paid, there's 20 GWC's lined up behind him wanting to shoot for free.
Thank God for weddings. Funny as hell because it's true.
Photographer
grsphoto
Posts: 313
Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Starstruck Foto wrote:
.I have never understood the whole TFP concept.For models its basically a waste of time. One thing that TFP gives models and photographers is experience. Nobody gets better without practice. A TFP session gives you a chance to try, without worrying about failing.
grs
Photographer
LongWindFPV Visuals
Posts: 7052
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
D. Brian Nelson wrote:
Used to make a living shooting for agency models that paid me (or for modeling schools that paid me). The job sucked, but the money was good. Graduated to higher class work - advertising - but hated that too. The whole concept of photography as work revolts me, even though I have many friends for whom it is their living. Eric Muss-Barnes wrote:
How I would love to be a whore such as you were, my friend.
Presuming you were actually making a good living, that is. If it was $45K then I would hate it too. Hey man. $45K for a photographer that is single and no kids, is not bad at all for a core salary. And, I highly doubt Crosslin's entire year and his complete Profit and Loss statement attributes nothing but women with money to blow for glamour shots but, I can stand corrected. Anyhow, there has to be more.
Photographer
TBJ Imaging
Posts: 2416
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, US
...Stacy wrote:
Me or poo? You....you are fun.
Model
Sascha
Posts: 2217
Tokyo, Tokyo, Japan
...Stacy wrote:
Answer: they do, they just don't pay you!
(I can't sleep and I'm cranky so I'm ranting)
It's not rocket science, really! See if a photgrapher has extra money to throw around, what model does he pay? joesephine shmoe? no he pays (insert famous name here). why? cause if he has (famous bitch) in his book, he gets more business. If a model has the money to throw around it works the same way. why in the hell would I have you build my portfolio? When I can pay Viva, or Johnny Crosslin or Jeffery Scott, Michael Hiller, or good lord the names go on. What do you think I am? retarded?
Will I pay your travel expenses so I can shoot TFP with you here? Duh... would you pay good money to bring someone you don't know in? no you wouldn't, you pay to move the girl you've worked with that you know you can depend on, who definatly wouldn't be wasting your money, IS going to show up, and is good, not some idiot chippie off the street! So why would I fly you here, when I can fly in Eric, or Cameron, or really anyone I've worked with whose work I loved. why the heck would I waste my money on you? When I can waste it on people I KNOW can do the job?
Want to get paid? get clients. (this goes for models too, unless your doing internet porn, and if you are more power to you! I'd rather they jerk off to your pictures than mine!)
Though why I would bother to even try to explain is beyond me. I love you LOL ; )
Model
StacyJack
Posts: 2297
New Orleans, Louisiana, US
Thomas B wrote:
You....you are fun. 
Model
StacyJack
Posts: 2297
New Orleans, Louisiana, US
Sascha wrote:
I love you LOL ; ) Thank you, I love you too!
Model
Diane ly
Posts: 1068
Manhattan, Illinois, US
landscapes are free ~ LOL, no i'm kidding! But why can't models get paid too? No fair 
Model
Iona Lynn
Posts: 11176
Oakland, California, US
Stephane Fourdrinier wrote:
This works exactly both ways.
Last weekend I got paid by a model to develop her portfolio. Not from the online world, she doesn't even have internet access... I setup my team, mua, etc... and we went out to shoot for a full day.
A designer saw the photos the next day and called me. Now the designer is hiring me to shoot something for her. The designer liked my photos very much and the girl I shot.
Result, this time I am hiring the girl that paid me last week for a paid shoot. I am paying her the same price she paid me. She already made her money back from my shoot. And I know she is going to get much more work now.
Isn't that the ideal world? Models pay you to develop portfolio. You hire her back because someone pays YOU for a job. Model makes her money back in one week. Photographer makes money twice. I agree Let's see I paid a photographer to get my portfolio started.
I used those photos to then get paid work.
one of my reoccouring jobs has been in a glamour photography class.
I also have listened and learned a lot about how to take pictures of people and such from these photographers and I even help the gwc's *newbies* with lighting composition.
I have my own camera for another job of product photography
I got a call a dew days ago and I'm getting paid to do photography of a girl who wants a christmas suprize for her fiance.
What goes around comes around.......
Photographer
Chapa
Posts: 314
Austin, Texas, US
JBPhoto wrote:
Another reason models don't pay is for every good photog who deserves to be paid, there's 20 GWC's lined up behind him wanting to shoot for free.
Thank God for weddings. as true as this is, there are many more "gwc's" living quite comfortably on the jack they're bringin' in from their "just decent photos" than people think...
some of the longest running(whether popular, lucrative, or both) amateur sites aren't even shot by one photographer/gwc(nowaday's, it's more cost effective for the model/admin/boyfriend/etc. to shoot their own pictures)...
...Stacy wrote:
thats Cindy Margolis, not buffy from idaho, not the same thing. Thats like comparing me and angelina Jolie. a lot of these sites don't even have nudity(cindy margolis isn't the only person cashing in on the concept of "non-nude" or "NN"...look it up..it's QUITE popular)...
...Stacy wrote:
...Want to get paid? get clients. (this goes for models too, unless your doing internet porn, and if you are more power to you! I'd rather they jerk off to your pictures than mine!)... this is funny...and naive...if you think that your FREE photos aren't MORE accessible/attractive than a pay site's, think again-if someone's horny enough, they're gonna jerk off to ANYTHING and EVERYTHING, nude or not...porn or art...but when it means the difference between paying a $30 membership(not to mention go through the trouble to sign up for one...OR, even having the means to do so in the first place) and gettin' it for free, it's no contest...
i came to know(online and through models) several people who admittedly signed up for myspace, deviantart, one model place, etc., 1.to pick up girls and/or 2.reap the benefits of the free jerk off material...i'm sure model mayhem has it's share, too...
Photographer
Chapa
Posts: 314
Austin, Texas, US
Stephane Fourdrinier wrote:
This works exactly both ways.
Last weekend I got paid by a model to develop her portfolio. Not from the online world, she doesn't even have internet access... I setup my team, mua, etc... and we went out to shoot for a full day.
A designer saw the photos the next day and called me. Now the designer is hiring me to shoot something for her. The designer liked my photos very much and the girl I shot.
Result, this time I am hiring the girl that paid me last week for a paid shoot. I am paying her the same price she paid me. She already made her money back from my shoot. And I know she is going to get much more work now.
Isn't that the ideal world? Models pay you to develop portfolio. You hire her back because someone pays YOU for a job. Model makes her money back in one week. Photographer makes money twice. Iona Lynn wrote:
I agree Let's see I paid a photographer to get my portfolio started.
I used those photos to then get paid work.
one of my reoccouring jobs has been in a glamour photography class.
I also have listened and learned a lot about how to take pictures of people and such from these photographers and I even help the gwc's *newbies* with lighting composition.
I have my own camera for another job of product photography
I got a call a dew days ago and I'm getting paid to do photography of a girl who wants a christmas suprize for her fiance.
What goes around comes around....... good for the both of you...
it's ALL about how you market yourself...or not...
some of us actually model/take pictures because we like it and could care less if it pays the bills...some of us do it because it DOES pay the bills...and still, there are those who hope that some day it WILL pay the bills...
Photographer
megafunk
Posts: 2594
Los Angeles, California, US
...Stacy wrote:
Will I pay your travel expenses so I can shoot TFP with you here? Duh... would you pay good money to bring someone you don't know in? I have a few times but not frequently recently. They've always been high energy shoots versus the up & down nature of locals. Of course, I know you're speaking in generalities so I agree with your core statement.
|
~ LOL, no i'm kidding! But why can't models get paid too? No fair 
