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Cage match by demand... what is your definition of Tfp/test
Okay in this corner we have the models weighing in a 98 to 255.523lbs. And in the red corner we have the newbies who will just get picked offf with the Dodgeballs very quickly. In the blue corner are the so-called professional mean photographers. In the orange corner are the artphotographers and the i love everyone people. So since this fight happens on all sites, why not here, if the Coliseum has already seen action well the Romans cry for blood. So the question to fight over is what is your definition of Tfp or test. Are they the same or different? what do the terms mean to you? IS it the same all the time? (to those that think I am just looking for trouble-well get a life.. it is a joke to show each side that they often act like bad old angry adults for calling them children is a disservice to children. hopefully people can laugh at my introduction and delay the inevitable chaos that will occur. but such a thread is needed for the newbies and I think it is a moving target to be honest.) So as I say to all my makeup artist before a shoot. Please can't we all just use breath mints. (mark ducks out of the way and hugs his dog for safety.) May 23 05 09:28 pm Link Well as I said in another post, TFP is an on-line term that I have not heard in the industry. TEST as explained to me years ago is a creative shoot where everyone gets something for their book. (MUA, model/s, photographer, stylist, other)People will TEST differently. Some people that do commercial work will TEST with a fee. Some will do it for free. For instance, I am always looking for models to add to my book. So, if I approach the model, then I will not charge. If she approaches me, then I charge. The way I look at it, with her in my book, I'll get paid on the back end. MUA's do it the same way. Instead of charging 600.00 or more, they'll charge 150.00 for the TEST. I had a client (Luster's Hair Products) do a TEST with me. They told me that since they do not know me and have never worked with me, they will allow me to shoot a particle job. They requested two estimates. One for the TEST and one for the full job. If they didn't like what I did, they'll pay the TESTING fee and we'll call it a day. If they liked it, I get the entire job and they'll pay the full fee. By the way, this was all handled and arranged through their ad agency. May 23 05 09:44 pm Link Wow, thankyou Fred, that takes baseballs to post to this but you know the question is a good one for it is a moving target. You and I never heard of this term a few years back but now it is everywhere like saviorfair. Fred gets 3 Hanachan points for she is excited to see me and delirious and 5 sora points for sora likes an old friend that i have never met. Thankyou for a great informative post coming from a guy who I know just likes to help and get no profit from such sites. I would make you a Saint but then we would have to cut your head off. (mark checks the attachment to the keyboard---you who know -know what I mean) May 23 05 09:55 pm Link i think of testing as an audition for some future paid work. i think of TFP as a way for amatuers to practice with each other. May 23 05 10:01 pm Link Hey Mark; Let me say this first! I absolutely like most of the photos that you have posted, basically I totally appreciate you style of photography! I am just wondering... do you realize that there are no extra points given for posting and starting as many threads as possible in any given time... All asked in good will and humor. Regards Udo May 23 05 10:11 pm Link No way. Reese is doling out the points. Just ask her. Obviously, people's deifnitions vary. TFP/TFCD = This is a paid shoot for me. The model MUA etc. are paid in shots for their book or their personal jollies. The utlimate goal is to create shots without anyone paying anybody money. I think of this more like a creative than a test. Test = Something is being tried out. Either a new technique or a new model. Tests are a means to an end (paid work), instead of the end itself. You need to find out what works for the camera or what doesn't. That said, I still refrain from saying TFP to some photographers becvause they get all defensive and scream "interweb word!" or something. May 23 05 10:30 pm Link Okay Hana is out and tired from chasing dear, porcupine, and fighting with sora so she gives out points freely. Nothing to do with what mark is doing. But great simple answer from Doug. Can I quote you on that answer for it is perfect in my book. I do tfp's for my makeup skills, test as needed with photography, and only pay for styling for god damit, I am good enough, I am proud enough, and if Conde Nast wanted to employ me as one then I must be doing something right. Plus above all I think the photographer I work with usually is good enough, proud enough, and well just special. udo, yes I am on a rampoge tonight and really will work tommorrow but My dogs had a fight today so I was worried for my babies.(mark mumbles about his ex) But I have a law for the congress who think they have thoughts on marriage. how about people cannot marry more than once a year. Holy hoping snot Batman, that should be illegal. Udo, working on a backup and having trouble sending e-mail. we should have coffee or a drink... e-mail me... mine is broken until the end of the week.. May 23 05 10:34 pm Link Posted by theda: well a first..thats the first time i have ever seen the word "doling" written anywhere....wow..is it spelled right? it looks wrong but i couldn't tell ya either way. May 23 05 10:35 pm Link Posted by theda: Well, I have some agencies that approached me (don't know the channels they came from) and they asked me if I am willing to TEST their models... and I am being paid by the agency, or the model and the agency reimburses the model. May 23 05 10:36 pm Link I've got my own points and if Reese has a problem then she can e-mail me but I will always admit that I got the idea from her. enough said and check for 33 cents sent to Reese. ====== But seriously, but Theda I see tfp as almost the opposite of what you state. For me at least. == E-mail me also theda, I cannnot email out on this slow C and I need to ask you something(will delete this part) May 23 05 10:39 pm Link Posted by marksora: Will do! May 23 05 10:40 pm Link Posted by marksora: Hm... Sr. Headless Saint I oh that would make e a knight, let's see how about St. Headless - hehe May 23 05 10:43 pm Link Well...Gee...My two cents worth...Had an ad agency hire me to shoot golf balls, but wanted to do a test first. Was paid for my time and materials. I do TFCD shoots with models to find out if I want to use them for up coming projects. Gives me a chance to see them in action and see their personality. May 23 05 10:58 pm Link Alright time for stand-up from Mark. yes to be a saint you need to have your head cut off and walk around alive holding your head for a few days. JP 2nd is being pushed for saint hood. Holy hopping snot Batman, he did not even have his head cut off or at least his legs. I call foul. No decent cath should be a saint without something missing. (okay, moderators save me... but the humor is bases upon the book the "Golden Legend" by Jacobus Voragine which was written in the Middle ages and considered total truth until the 50's/ So know your history before you complain. I know my saints and my saint humor. I was not called Simon for nothing. holy hopping snot Hanachan, at least tommorrow morning I can use the edit button. Mark needs a moderator wherever he goes for whatever he says for whatever he does. May 23 05 11:07 pm Link I agree. Moderating mark is a full-time job. May 23 05 11:09 pm Link Posted by Doug Harvey: Good point for I do do castings for photographers who do need me to do do everything and it is a lot to do and do do and or course there is the do do to do and to deal with a whole lot of do do for those who know do do. May 23 05 11:12 pm Link Posted by theda: Good luck, well let the defensive end who is ghosting me to take the day off tommorrow for I have work to do outside. May 23 05 11:16 pm Link Most agreed on the do do do do....I know the routine well... Posted by marksora: Posted by Doug Harvey: Good point for I do do castings for photographers who do need me to do do everything and it is a lot to do and do do and or course there is the do do to do and to deal with a whole lot of do do for those who know do do. May 23 05 11:26 pm Link Posted by marksora: That's me! Holla! So the question to fight over is what is your definition of Tfp or test. TFP. TFP is for people who want to improve or update thier portfolios, with little or no cost. Sometimes over done by photographers to get thier joy on. May 24 05 03:04 am Link TESTS: 90 min. to determine either of two (2) things, for either of two (2) parties 1. Agencies willing to invest the nominal costs associated with a quick [hair/makeup-to-wrap] shoot, in order to see if someone's face has any potential to make money for them. And it only takes so long to find out. + 2. Photographers willing to invest in the nominal costs associated with a quick shoot, in order to work with new equipment, *test* models they might to include into their personal projects, try new techniques to study outcome prior to attempting on a job and/or being otherwise restricted by client's parameters. And it only takes so long to find out. That's the extent of a 'test'. Tests aren't aren't 2,3... 8+ hour PERSONAL PROJECTS, and THEMED-no less!, 2 and 20 "model", 5-look / 9 wardrobe change orchestrations of some photographer's series, student's homework, or "model's" general larks we are available to subsidize. If they were, WHAT would then be being "T E S T E D"?! HOW LONG PEOPLE MIGHT PARTICIPATE FOR FREE ON YOUR "....wah, wah...oh-so-close-to-my-heart" PROJECTS??! Q: WHO *DOESN'T* conduct them: A: Models. Models are persons busy making livings as such. All others are just pretty persons organizing photoshoots...wanting new pictures for boyfriends, free at-ur-door makeovers, etc. If you simply like having your picture taken and/or are an actor wanting pictures --shots that evidently,**ACCORDING TO AGENCY CRITIQUES**, wouldn't do us much good to include in our books anyway... P A Y. and Students / hopefuls / GWCs slash hobbyists / all others not earning living as photog: Where you cannot otherwise shoot landscapes and butterflies and require our services to complete your projects - pay. It's not our fault you're shooting people and would like them made up. Your status as a student doesn't mean anyone/industry is available to support YOUR education. It's simple business; DON'T DELIVER FREE MAKEOVERS, DONATE MAKEUP OR AUDITION AND EFFECTIVELY COME AWAY WITH LESS THAN YOU STARTED WITH. The interested party pays for what is required to achieve and advance in their pursuits. And in order for US to achieve and advance in OURS, we must recoup costs associated with participating and make gainful returns from OUR investment into OUR *tests* and subsequent certification. TALENT: DON'T BE PACIFIED WITH CDs. Gladly forfeit CDs for prints. **You don't need a record of the shoot. You only need the two best shots (if that). **It's not as though before CDs started being doled out, there was any interest in the negatives to bother with anyone's 3rd or 4th best shots taken. (??!!) Assuming some "photographer" wouldn't include the CD - who cares?! You know better than to repeat anyone's mug in your book (online books being more forgiving), unless we're talking editorial, anyway. With the 2 best images secured you can scan / upload them yourself if you'd like, but any legit photographer will include the CD and assume the 'under $1.00' cost without particular strain. **Outside of securing credited tear sheets, celebrity shots, etc that have an IMPACT on your book EQUAL TO OR GREATER THAN rate forfeited, willingly donating services is nonsense. Insanity. If tests = free, everyone would just call ALL shoots tests. (oh! they're already trying that!) WHO needs WHO? Wanna find out? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Simply boycott. Sep 04 06 07:07 am Link Sep 04 06 07:34 am Link MUA Alma Adamson wrote: I see you have discovered the search function. Sep 04 06 09:51 am Link |
