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Is it possible?
Well I have lost 2 friends while in this business...Can models and photogs not be friends...I made friends with 2 of my models that I shot on a regular basis...Until they both flaked out and expected EVERYTHING for nothing...one wanted catalog work for free and much much more...the other basically expected receive EVERY single image good or bad...I told her from day one I only give out good edited(if needed) pics.. Nov 28 05 12:22 pm Link Hmmmm, do you want to make money or do you want to make friends? What does the adage say, "Don't mix business with pleasure." If you are into photography because you are trying to make friends, then it is certainly possible. MM is a great community for that. When you shoot with models, shoot with them because friendship is your goal. If this is a business for you (or you want it to be) then you have to make a choice. Inevitably, in business you are going to have to make decisions that are not in the best interest of your friends and that will hurt friendships. I have become friends with many models over the years, but that was not my goal when I shot them. I have some models whose friendship I lost because of what I just said. In the end this is business. Don't kick yourself in the kiester, just move on and relish in your successes. Good shooting! Nov 28 05 01:16 pm Link Alan from Aavian Prod wrote: That is how it turned out for me too....they just kinda became our friends on the side ya know...never talked about photgraphy when it was "friend time" but then all of the sudden they want ALL their photos...I almost caved in until I decided that my business end is more important. So from there the freindship has been lost...I am very sad...but I kept my dignity by not giving in!!! Made me realize I AM STRONG...I do believe in my work and I will not let people walk all over me!!! Nov 28 05 01:22 pm Link Dee wrote: Business and friendships are two different terms with no relation in between them. If it is business, then not even my mother is excused from the rules. Being friendly is nice but people will soon make a fool out of you just because you allowed them to or had too much common sense to tell them streight in their face where the limit between your friendship and business is. People, no matter if they are models or photographers tend to take your whole arm if they see you are offering them one finger, and this have been proven to me many times. Free stuff is always expected if they are "friends" with you. I have a couple of models myself who thinking they are "friends" they don't need to follow the rules, they can just cancel on me whenever they want or just do whatever they please...I took this only once and I made sure IF they will work with me again they will not treat me like this again...or if they will try to giving me as excuse "friendship" they can be my friends but not my models. Nov 28 05 01:38 pm Link Yes, they can, so long as both are reasonable. That is the same requirement for pretty much any friendship. M Nov 28 05 02:13 pm Link But when being reasonable ins't good enough anymore....then what?? I decided that I will NEVER become friends in this business with anyone..Just associates. Nov 28 05 02:21 pm Link I am one of the models Dee talks about. A "no" was enough the subject was dropped but only brought up time and time again by our husbands... Then people become rude. I was never angry at you for not giving me the pictures. I didnt want them, I wanted to see them so i could see if there were any that i may have liked that you didnt. I Suppose you should have read everything before blowing this whole thing out of preportion. I was a friend to you and a damn good one. I just couldnt take the rude way i was treated. and when i say rude it had nothing to do with the word NO. It had to do with the way i was treated after I said ok about the no. Sobefore you make statements about people flaking out again "your way of being rude", you really do need to think about your behaviour and how people wont just sit there while you treat them anyway you want to. I have maintained maturity thru this entire thing. I only found this post because a friend of mine sent it to me. I told you I DONT WANT THE PICTURES I NEVER DID. I dont understand how many times i have to say that for you to understand. Again I am not angry with your post. I just cant beleive you can mislead other people and tell them a story that is untrue. Victoria Nov 28 05 04:24 pm Link Dee... you seemed pretty reasonable when we shot together last winter. Not sure if I know the models, for sure I don't know the one who has posted in response, so I'm going to avoid commenting on details. Misunderstandings happen... move on, focus on the next great series you're going to shoot instead  Nov 28 05 04:36 pm Link Victoria Rak wrote: You know what you go ahead and look at it how you want...And any other person that has ever met me knows that this is BS...I get rude and mean when people think they cant get whatever they want from me... Dec 06 05 12:06 am Link Ken Mierzwa wrote: Ken, Dec 06 05 12:10 am Link Yea, CAT Fight   Dec 06 05 12:32 am Link ROTFLMFAO!!!!! Dec 06 05 12:33 am Link I'm surprised Benny didn't put some kind of pic like that up. You know Dee, I have found that photographers tell me over and over how models flake on them. Victoria, no offense to you- what happened between you two is you ladies' business, but I can't believe how many models flake! And I'm only a model, not a photog. I think that it's best that if any photogs find a particular model(s) that they prefer to work with, to keep it business, because unless you truly know someone, they'll stab you in the back. Actually no. YOU NEVER KNOW WHO WILL! So only work with people that you know show up. Oh, and NEVER (this is the golden rule) do any favors where you are going out of your way. Most people don't care anyway. Most of us unfortunately find this out the hard way! Dec 06 05 01:17 am Link Sarah Schaf wrote: Yep so true..no back stabbing luckily..just 2 people not seeing eye to eye thats it...I learned that business is business and pleasure is pleasure ..no more intermingling of the two..it causes to much pain when things go wrong... Dec 06 05 01:23 am Link I think it depends on what you consider "friendship." I can only think of one model I've shot in the last few years that I'm not on good terms with, but at the same time, I don't kid myself into thinking that a working relationship [no matter how productive and positive] is the same as a "friendship." I don't rule out the idea of calling a model to say "yo whassup" or even meet a local model for coffee or lunch or something, but I also don't try to force a friendship on them...I'm sure people might think that odd considering the type of work I do, but I find that a little distance can be healthy, even with a steady model. I read an interview with Keith Richards once where he attributed the Rolling Stones longevity to the fact that the band "didn't see much of each other" when not recording or on tour. Maybe the key to successful photographer/model relationships is to have a fun/positive/productive working enviornmen, and then give each other enough space to have lives of their own. Familiarity can breed contempt, you know. I'm not sure I even answered the question...sorry if i didn't. Dec 06 05 09:10 am Link Models and photographers can be friends, even good friends and best friends. I know I have made a number of good friends in doing my photography among the models (Tatiana, Bridgett Harrington, Fayth to name three of many), and it's been great. Sorry, no best friends there, that's reserved for my wife.  (Who is also a photographer and counts a number of the models I work with as friends too...)Dec 06 05 09:57 am Link i am good friends with several of the photographers with whom i have shot......i was friends with a couple of them before i even knew they were photographers, and i have become friends with some others since shooting with them.....not only do i not see a problem with models and photographers being friends, i think it is spectacular! the shoot is so much more fun when you're friends.....and then you have someone to go grab dinner with afterwards...... Dec 06 05 03:49 pm Link Personally, I think that it's all about your boundaries. Most people don't set them in their friendships and relationships, and, if you're mixing business with pleasure, you really should at least communicate what your expectations are. There's no sense in losing friendships (good friends are hard to come by as it is in any event) when all you have to do is convey that one of your boundaries is no free pics. It's important to implement boundaries in all areas of your life, and to be conscious of them, instead of just all of the sudden a friendship going kaput when you realize "I really don't like when so and so does ____." That's just my opinion, and you might think I'm blowing smoke, but that's my humble opinion. Dec 06 05 04:27 pm Link Victoria Rak wrote: Men! Dec 06 05 04:35 pm Link Hey Dee I can totally relate to you and feel your pain! A year ago I was very close friends with a model. I didn't realize it at the time, probably because I was too naive or just actually THOUGHT that she wanted to be my friend, but she was using me all along. How did she use me? I was pretty much at her beck and call for shooting whenever she demanded it. Don't get me wrong, I really liked her and thought she was a funny and sincere person. But the more I got to know her the more I realized that things weren't quite right. She told some really fantastic and exagerrated "stories" about members of her family and things that has "supposedly" happened to her. I began to realize that she was a professional victim and that everyone was always "out to get her." We embarked on a pay site and I worked 10-12 hours a day on the site, editing photos, answering her emails, planning, shooting, planning shoots, etc. I didn't mind doing things for her because the idea was that eventually we would both be making a lot of money. This story is so long, but to make a very long and ugly story short, she turned on me for something she THOUGHT I had done and hadn't. In her paranoia, she thought that everyone was against her and that I was another person who was going to "screw her over." I was sickened by the entire mess and even sicker when I found out that she was bad mouthing me to other photographers in the area as well as models. What she did to me hurt me a lot and almost did me in with regards to my creative spirit. I didn't shoot for several months after she burned me. But, I came to accept who she really was and realized that I had never lost a friend...in fact I never had a friend in her...it was all about what she could get out of me. I'm sorry this happened to you and hope that you are able to come out of it ok. Once you realize that you aren't at fault and there was nothing really that you could have done differently, it kind of eases the pain. Best of luck to you..  Dec 06 05 07:26 pm Link |
