Photographer
MMDesign
Posts: 18647
Louisville, Kentucky, US
While reading "The Judgment of Paris" (a book about the beginnings of impressionistic painting during the years 1863 and 1873), I came across these two references to models and art.
The behavior of models was a common source of worry and complaint for artists. "When I start something", (Edouard) Manet once told a friend, "I always tremble to think that models will let me down, or that I won't see them as often as I would like, or that the next time will be under conditions that I don't like."
On the differences between real painters and GWP's (guys with paintbrushes). "It is to the decoration of churches, public places, of halls of justice, that art must dedicate itself. Real painting," as Gericault more bluntly expressed it, "means working with buckets of color on hundred-foot walls."
I just thought it funny how those related so well to some of the posts on mm.
selah
Model
Kita St Cyr
Posts: 13934
New York, New York, US
MMDesign wrote:
While reading "The Judgment of Paris" (a book about the beginnings of impressionistic painting during the years 1863 and 1873), I came across these two references to models and art.
The behavior of models was a common source of worry and complaint for artists. "When I start something", (Edouard) Manet once told a friend, "I always tremble to think that models will let me down, or that I won't see them as often as I would like, or that the next time will be under conditions that I don't like."
On the differences between real painters and GWP's (guys with paintbrushes). "It is to the decoration of churches, public places, of halls of justice, that art must dedicate itself. Real painting," as Gericault more bluntly expressed it, "means working with buckets of color on hundred-foot walls."
I just thought it funny how those related so well to some of the posts on mm.
selah I wonder if the woman featured in Olympia flaked a few times before they nailed that painting.
Photographer
MMDesign
Posts: 18647
Louisville, Kentucky, US
KitaPanda wrote:
I wonder if the woman featured in Olympia flaked a few times before they nailed that painting. Actually no. Her name was Victorine Meurent and he supposedly never had a problem with her.
Photographer
Mikel Featherston
Posts: 11103
San Diego, California, US
MMDesign wrote:
Actually no. Her name was Victorine Meurent and he supposedly never had a problem with her. So when they had a "he said/she said" argument back then, did they use town criers?
Model
CrazyRussianHelicopter
Posts: 3256
Madison, Alabama, US
I don't think it is nearly the same issue here...
This issue can not exist, unless somebody shooting a series, but in that case everyone invested in that shoot could worry about each other, because they become dependent until the end of the project.
It's not the flake issue.
Photographer
MMDesign
Posts: 18647
Louisville, Kentucky, US
Julia wrote:
I don't think it is nearly the same issue here...
This issue can not exist, unless somebody shooting a series, but in that case everyone invested in that shoot could worry about each other, because they become dependent until the end of the project.
It's not the flake issue. Artists complaining about models.
Painting murals is real art, painting on canvas isn't. Shooting film is real art, shooting digital isn't (or vice-versa).
Sounds pretty similar to me.
Model
CrazyRussianHelicopter
Posts: 3256
Madison, Alabama, US
MMDesign wrote:
Artists complaining about models.
Painting murals is real art, painting on canvas isn't. Shooting film is real art, shooting digital isn't (or vice-versa).
Sounds pretty similar to me. He didnt' complain about a model.
As far as a debate about what's a real art - that could be implied to anything at any time.
Everything in the world is pertty relative.
I am just being a pain the @ss.
It was an interesting post, thank you.
Photographer
MMDesign
Posts: 18647
Louisville, Kentucky, US
Julia wrote:
He didnt' complain about a model.
As far as a debate about what's a real art - that could be implied to anything at any time.
Everything in the world is pertty relative.
I am just being a pain the @ss.
It was an interesting post, thank you. A rather photogenic pain though. 
Photographer
Brandon Ching
Posts: 2028
Brooklyn, New York, US
I'm sure a lot of models flaked.. no one had time for TFP or Time For Paint. What model would stand around and pose for 2 copies of the same painting?
Model
CrazyRussianHelicopter
Posts: 3256
Madison, Alabama, US
Brandon Ching wrote:
I'm sure a lot of models flaked.. no one had time for TFP or Time For Paint. What model would stand around and pose for 2 copies of the same painting? 
Photographer
DarioImpiniPhotography
Posts: 8756
Dallas, Texas, US
The other corollary is tool/process snobbery. Film photographers look down on digital guys. Digital guys look down on guys who tweak/enhance. Painters look down on photographers. Sculpters look down on painters.
The artistic pecking order seems to forget that the final work is the "art", not the process of how you got there.
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