Bryanna Nicole wrote:
Anyone have any thoughts on this?

commercial projects are scheduled in pencil and converted to pen upon receipt of deposit.  testing is done on the fly based on open availability.  that's what works for me.

--face reality

Life Is Great Images wrote:
Interesting that this thread was started by a model rather than a photographer.  My guess is that 80% to 95% of the time it is the model who flakes out.  But bad manners, etc. are certainly not confined to one gender, profession or background.

Yes.. this is written from a model's viewpoint, however - there are other people involved in the shoot, so one major component backing out without notice affects us all.

In my particular situation - the people involved are supposedly respected in the industry - though at this point, it appears the "respect" they have may be more rumor than fact.

Looknsee Photography wrote:
On this forum, the concept of a photographer requesting a deposit from a model comes up often, presumedly to insure that the model doesn't flake.  The idea is that the deposit is refunded when the model shows up on time & ready to go.

I don't like it, myself.  For me (who does mostly fine art nudes), the relationship between the model & the photographer contributes greatly to the overall results, and when a photographer asks for such a deposit, he's already saying that he doesn't trust the model -- it's difficult to recover from such a negative first impression.

I should hasten to add that I've never had a no-show, no-call.  Then again, I check references, I pay my models, I treat them well, I stive to share my enthusiasm for our projects, and models respond positively to that.

Another common theme to these forums is when models complain that photographers have not delivered prints/CDs after a reasonable amount of time.  I suppose that the model can ask the photographer for a deposit, which would be returned when the images are delivered as promised, but I don't know of any photographer who would agree to that (including the photographers who request a no-flake model deposit).  Again, such a deposit speaks of distrust & is counterproductive to the creation of top quality images.  It is better to set expectations clearly before the session and to keep communication lines open (when the unexpected delays delivery).

So, as far as I'm concern, any exchange of deposits as a guarantee of future performance speaks more to concerns about money than to the passion to create fine images.  It would be a warning flag for me.

It's more than just about relationship or lack of trust. When you purchase a car, in most cases you are asked for a down payment. The average buyer doesn't have enough credibilty for a car salesman to trust that the buyer's word is good. He needs to see if he has a good past or assest. If not, then you put down a payment.


I think that it is a good 'option' to have only if a model is approaching you for a shoot. Relationship is one thing, but relationships doen't start off the bat. Relationship happen over time. You have to get to know that person in order to build up a trust. The samething applies to models trusting photographer.

But in the real world, this is business and not fully about art, so you treat as that, a business. Models flake even in the professional industry. This is why we have contracts that the model sign, guarenteed that he or she is obligated to the shoot.


If the model doesn't approach you and it's your own personal project minus paid job, you have more than one model. You interview several models to see who will fit and who is going to be reliable. I also recommend this for paid gigs too because there is no gaurentee that the model will show up. This have been shown to happen on here too.


Me personally, I don't make a big deal about it anymore. I already know what's expected/the gamble that you take on here and off. Flakes aren't just on here. But  I use my model back up plan. It works. Bottomline, one soltuion is the perfect solution. You need multiple solutions to keep things balanced.

Life Is Great Images wrote:
Interesting that this thread was started by a model rather than a photographer.  My guess is that 80% to 95% of the time it is the model who flakes out.  But bad manners, etc. are certainly not confined to any one gender, profession or background. 

Deposits, per se, are an interesting tactic.   A semi professional very experienced photographer who I know is considering a $25 deposit for even tfp work - just as a means of screening out flakes.   He would refund it to the model when she/he shows up at the session.  I don't think he's actually done that yet but it's an idea.

Back to the model's viewpoint:   If a model were to require a deposit from me, what would be my reaction as an amateur photographer?  I'd not thought about that as it's never happened.   It would depend on how experienced the model appeared to be.   If it was someone just starting out, I'd ignore it, consider it an immature request and promptly avoid that model.  If it was from someone with lots of experience so the deposit / danger of losing other assignments is real, then I'd understand and probably go along with it.

No, I've seen a few models that start these types of post about models flaking. The deposit suggestion thing was first started by MM Lawrence. Lawrence had suggested this over a year ago. Funny because I know some non photographers who suggested the samething. I don't think that it's a bad idea if  the model is approaching you to shoot, but I'd make sure that she or he is someone that you'd want to work with.

Bryanna Nicole wrote:
So..  I did a search first to see if anyone had covered this subject - and while a few "touched" upon it.. I found no "really good advice" on the subject..  so here goes -

It matters little whether this is a model/photog/MUA/stylist - it pertains to all of the aforementioned.

Situation - You verbally "booked" a shoot months in advance, (this may be a tfcd/tfp and/or paid shoot - because it's happened with both recently)

Now you've taken the time and the initiative to round up the required elements (depending on your role in the shoot - model, photog, stylist, MUA) and also passed up various offers because you are already "booked" on said date because believe it or not, the reason you were booked months in advance is because you are actually "in demand".

Time flies and the date to the shoot swiftly approaches - you email/message/phone the initial booking party (who - in my opinion, should be the one initiating this particular contact) who at that point informs you  -

1. That date is no longer good for them, this is the new date - deal with it

2. The decision has been made to use another in your stead

3. Informs you that there has been a miscommunication and they never actually "cemented" that particular date and/or shoot with you.

4. The decision has been made to nix the shoot in totalty

5. Just doesn't respond at all to your contact

Now.. at this point, I am inclined never to book with this person again and just take it as a lesson learned - unfortunately, this is the third lesson of this type in as many months from as many people.

So perhaps booking deposits are the answer - as it stands, I am moments away from "outing" these people on a thread no matter the consequences.. offering "fair warning" to those who might already be unknowingly in the same situation.

Screw me once, shame on you - twice, shame on me.. three times - I am no longer a nice person -

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Well Honestly whatever your role in your shoot, you have a made a commitment to someone (verbal or written) to follow through. If they book you 2 days or 2yrs in advance, really shouldnt be the issue. The problem is communication as it usually seems to be.  I have had people cancel on me the day , night before and luckily I have a backup, but if you ( model,photographer, wardrobe stylist, makeup) know that you cant honestly do what you said, tell people in enough time or try to. No one should have to hunt you down once you made a commitment.

quiet as it kept , your reputation is the one on the line here.


I feel your pain about deposits and honestly it doesnt seem to be that much of a problem from those I know who do it.

Bryanna Nicole wrote:
So..  I did a search first to see if anyone had covered this subject - and while a few "touched" upon it.. I found no "really good advice" on the subject..  so here goes -

It matters little whether this is a model/photog/MUA/stylist - it pertains to all of the aforementioned.

Situation - You verbally "booked" a shoot months in advance, (this may be a tfcd/tfp and/or paid shoot - because it's happened with both recently)

Now you've taken the time and the initiative to round up the required elements (depending on your role in the shoot - model, photog, stylist, MUA) and also passed up various offers because you are already "booked" on said date because believe it or not, the reason you were booked months in advance is because you are actually "in demand".

Time flies and the date to the shoot swiftly approaches - you email/message/phone the initial booking party (who - in my opinion, should be the one initiating this particular contact) who at that point informs you  -

1. That date is no longer good for them, this is the new date - deal with it

2. The decision has been made to use another in your stead

3. Informs you that there has been a miscommunication and they never actually "cemented" that particular date and/or shoot with you.

4. The decision has been made to nix the shoot in totalty

5. Just doesn't respond at all to your contact

Now.. at this point, I am inclined never to book with this person again and just take it as a lesson learned - unfortunately, this is the third lesson of this type in as many months from as many people.

So perhaps booking deposits are the answer - as it stands, I am moments away from "outing" these people on a thread no matter the consequences.. offering "fair warning" to those who might already be unknowingly in the same situation.

Screw me once, shame on you - twice, shame on me.. three times - I am no longer a nice person -

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

It all depends on the market. If you are in demand, then you command the situation. Tell them about your booking fee, and stipulate in the agreement that it is (either) refundable only if canceled two weeks in advance (all dependent on you) or nonrefundable at all once you commit that date. It just seems fair because you may have turned down other gigs that came your way only to deal with such unprofessional conduct by some professionals.

All the best to you!

Janine wrote:

quiet as it kept , your reputation is the one on the line here.

Sure is. Models and photographers that pull these stunts are outted subtle. I've seen it happen first hand. So you don't have to break the rules to out a person out in the open to expose them for not being reliable. Trust is important even in business. If that person can't be reliable, then you are going to be on a black list with many. People do talk.

Look at what happened to GM. They screwed people for some years and now are trying to get the customers back. Trust is harder to get back than it is to get in the begining.

Legacys 7 wrote:
It's more than just about relationship or lack of trust. When you purchase a car, in most cases you are asked for a down payment. The average buyer doesn't have enough credibilty for a car salesman to trust that the buyer's word is good. He needs to see if he has a good past or assest. If not, then you put down a payment.

Apples & oranges.  I can buy a $300,000 house with no down payment.  How about that?  Of course, my credit rating is ~820, I have plenty of equity in other properties & I have a good income.  I'm not saying you should have blind faith.  I am saying that it baffles me that more people don't check references, for example.  Sure, no down payment loans are available to folks -- just check them out a little bit.

Legacys 7 wrote:
I think that it is a good 'option' to have only if a model is approaching you for a shoot. Relationship is one thing, but relationships doen't start off the bat. Relationship happen over time. You have to get to know that person in order to build up a trust. The samething applies to models trusting photographer.

Okay, that's your call, but when do you take the chance?  I'm just saying that before I commit to a sitting, I need a base level of trust; thus, I check references first, then commit.

Besides, some of the models I use simply can't afford a deposit.  Some of my models are college students, with part time, minimum wage jobs.  They have expenses (wardrobe, make-up, transportation).  Providing a deposit might be a deal breaker for them (in addition to creating a bad first impression).

Legacys 7 wrote:
But in the real world, this is business and not fully about art, so you treat as that, a business. Models flake even in the professional industry. This is why we have contracts that the model sign, guarenteed that he or she is obligated to the shoot.

For you, it's a business -- for me, it's primarily a way for me to hone my artistic skills.  And, IMHO, the more you treat the session as a business, the less enthused many young models will be.   

Legacys 7 wrote:
If the model doesn't approach you and it's your own personal project minus paid job, you have more than one model. You interview several models to see who will fit and who is going to be reliable. I also recommend this for paid gigs too because there is no gaurentee that the model will show up. This have been shown to happen on here too.

For me, the objective of a sitting with a new-to-me model is simply "get acquainted".  The idea is that I get to observe how the model moves, how she interprets my direction, and most importantly what our chemistry is going to be like.  As such, for that first sitting, I don't invest a lot of time & expense to the sitting -- I try simple & comfortable (and sometimes familar) concepts & concentrate on getting to know the model.  I wouldn't use a new-to-me model on a project that is critical to me.

Legacys 7 wrote:
Me personally, I don't make a big deal about it anymore. I already know what's expected/the gamble that you take on here and off. Flakes aren't just on here. But  I use my model back up plan. It works. Bottomline, one soltuion is the perfect solution. You need multiple solutions to keep things balanced.

Whatever works -- it is a good idea to plan contingencies.

I'm just saying that asking models for deposits...
   ...  will not work for many models,
   ...  will inhibit a comfortable & productive working relationship,
   ...  will not guarantee that the model will not flake,
   ...  is inherently unfair (as if the photographer's time is more valuable),
   ...  is not sympathetic

I'm guessing that many photographers would have no qualms asking models for a deposit as insurance against no-shows, but the same photographers would be highly offended if the same model asks for a deposit as a guarantee that the photographer will provide the images promised in a timely manner.

Bryanna Nicole wrote:
So..  I did a search first to see if anyone had covered this subject - and while a few "touched" upon it.. I found no "really good advice" on the subject..  so here goes -

It matters little whether this is a model/photog/MUA/stylist - it pertains to all of the aforementioned.

Situation - You verbally "booked" a shoot months in advance, (this may be a tfcd/tfp and/or paid shoot - because it's happened with both recently)

Now you've taken the time and the initiative to round up the required elements (depending on your role in the shoot - model, photog, stylist, MUA) and also passed up various offers because you are already "booked" on said date because believe it or not, the reason you were booked months in advance is because you are actually "in demand".

Time flies and the date to the shoot swiftly approaches - you email/message/phone the initial booking party (who - in my opinion, should be the one initiating this particular contact) who at that point informs you  -

1. That date is no longer good for them, this is the new date - deal with it

2. The decision has been made to use another in your stead

3. Informs you that there has been a miscommunication and they never actually "cemented" that particular date and/or shoot with you.

4. The decision has been made to nix the shoot in totalty

5. Just doesn't respond at all to your contact

Now.. at this point, I am inclined never to book with this person again and just take it as a lesson learned - unfortunately, this is the third lesson of this type in as many months from as many people.

So perhaps booking deposits are the answer - as it stands, I am moments away from "outing" these people on a thread no matter the consequences.. offering "fair warning" to those who might already be unknowingly in the same situation.

Screw me once, shame on you - twice, shame on me.. three times - I am no longer a nice person -

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

My advice on this is for both paid and non paid. If it's for a non paid gig, you always have backup models. If it's for paid gigs, have back up models. Contract or no contracts, if a model will back out she will back out.


From a business point of view, I think that it's best to do your scouting elsewhere. MM is cool, but if I'm going to do this for a living paticularly in the advertisement/business industry, you'd better chose most of your models outside of here and make this a last choice to pick from. If not that, chose wisely from here.


In the commercial/advertisement industry you don't have room for flakes when you have a seriuous project. Contracts, demand, command etc.. is one thing, but when you are on here and a model is speaking via email back n forth or back n forth on the phone with you and she never shows up for a intial meeting, well you haven't got passed first base. Scouting puts more of a security on making the shoot happen. I found this to work for me because it gives me the opportunity to scout for several models to see if the model will fit my concept, and to see if the model will be reliable. This puts me in a better position to chose and gaurentees that my project will become a reality.

I wouldn't out that person out in the open. BUT if this model have done this several times, tell it amongst the photographers that you worked with as someone that they may not want to work with because she or he are known for doing this.

Looknsee Photography wrote:

Legacys 7 wrote:
It's more than just about relationship or lack of trust. When you purchase a car, in most cases you are asked for a down payment. The average buyer doesn't have enough credibilty for a car salesman to trust that the buyer's word is good. He needs to see if he has a good past or assest. If not, then you put down a payment.

Apples & oranges.  I can buy a $300,000 house with no down payment.  How about that?  Of course, my credit rating is ~820, I have plenty of equity in other properties & I have a good income.  I'm not saying you should have blind faith.  I am saying that it baffles me that more people don't check references, for example.  Sure, no down payment loans are available to folks -- just check them out a little bit.

Legacys 7 wrote:
I think that it is a good 'option' to have only if a model is approaching you for a shoot. Relationship is one thing, but relationships doen't start off the bat. Relationship happen over time. You have to get to know that person in order to build up a trust. The samething applies to models trusting photographer.

Okay, that's your call, but when do you take the chance?  I'm just saying that before I commit to a sitting, I need a base level of trust; thus, I check references first, then commit.

Besides, some of the models I use simply can't afford a deposit.  Some of my models are college students, with part time, minimum wage jobs.  They have expenses (wardrobe, make-up, transportation).  Providing a deposit might be a deal breaker for them (in addition to creating a bad first impression).

Legacys 7 wrote:
But in the real world, this is business and not fully about art, so you treat as that, a business. Models flake even in the professional industry. This is why we have contracts that the model sign, guarenteed that he or she is obligated to the shoot.

For you, it's a business -- for me, it's primarily a way for me to hone my artistic skills.  And, IMHO, the more you treat the session as a business, the less enthused many young models will be.   

Legacys 7 wrote:
If the model doesn't approach you and it's your own personal project minus paid job, you have more than one model. You interview several models to see who will fit and who is going to be reliable. I also recommend this for paid gigs too because there is no gaurentee that the model will show up. This have been shown to happen on here too.

For me, the objective of a sitting with a new-to-me model is simply "get acquainted".  The idea is that I get to observe how the model moves, how she interprets my direction, and most importantly what our chemistry is going to be like.  As such, for that first sitting, I don't invest a lot of time & expense to the sitting -- I try simple & comfortable (and sometimes familar) concepts & concentrate on getting to know the model.  I wouldn't use a new-to-me model on a project that is critical to me.



Whatever works -- it is a good idea to plan contingencies.

I'm just saying that asking models for deposits...
   ...  will not work for many models,
   ...  will inhibit a comfortable & productive working relationship,
   ...  will not guarantee that the model will not flake,
   ...  is inherently unfair (as if the photographer's time is more valuable),
   ...  is not sympathetic

I'm guessing that many photographers would have no qualms asking models for a deposit as insurance against no-shows, but the same photographers would be highly offended if the same model asks for a deposit as a guarantee that the photographer will provide the images promised in a timely manner.

You missed the point about the loan thing. I didn't state that no down payments aren't available. But even when they are available to those who don't have the credibilty, there's still a sacrifice with that. It's called higher interest rates. That is a security for the lender. So all in all it's apples to apples. As you proved my point by stating that you have a good credit rate and equity that gaurentees you this.

Yes trust has to be apart of it too, but you can have a model that can be very comfortable and build as you state, a 'relationship' with you, but it's not going to guarentee that the model is going to be relaible. References or not. There have been cases on here where models do have good references andf have flaked. But you did noticed that I had stated payment is a good 'option.' to have if the model is doing the approaching.

Your models can't afford the deposit, they are college students etc. That's your choice and where you chose to scout for models at. So that would explain your situation. Every situation is different. And every model isn't going to view that as a bad impression. It boils down to who and how you are approaching the situation when you address this. I have only used this 'option' twice, the models didn't have a problem with it, because I gaurenteed the refund in the contract and they know me from my credentials on here.

Oik you state that for the models if it's treated more as a business the less enthusiatic they will be. Let's be realistic here. As you have stated, for you it's a way for you to hone your artistic skills. I never stated what it is for me. But even if I'm honing my artistic skill, which is more of a preference and has nothing to do with the business part of it, you have to be realisitc. There is a well know professional who is a member on here who for the first time did some scouting in the casting call. Do you think that he is just honing his artistic skills and not treating this without the business aspect? It's one thing to want to express yourself, but it's another thing if I have a client or school project and that model that I'm hiring isn't relaible. This is the reason why I state that back up models is a good thing to have. Just another 'option' because you can't solely rely upon one thing.

I also do the meeting with the models to to see if he or she is going to work for my concepts. Most of us do. But the fact that you have options give you more flexibility and guarentees a better security.

To sum up your conclusion, that's more of a generalizing. All models don't react the same. Reactions are going to vary from model to model. The model can have the same reaction even if she is getting paid. It has happen to many on here.

It doesn't imply that the photographer is unfair or unsympathetic. How you present yourself can determine what is fair and unfair. Both model and photographer. 

The last statement is a generlaizing one too. If the model is someone that I would want to shoot that I know would benefit my port. I wouldn't have a problem with a security deposit that will be returned to me once she has recieve her images.

Bryanna Nicole wrote:
This is slowly turning into another "the model flaked" thread..

Let me stop you all right there - this is actually a "numerous reputable photographers flaked" thread..

An action which has not only affected the model in question, but the MUA, wardrobe stylist and the hair stylist - so up to four people's lives are affected by these "professional photographers" who book shoots in a careless and nonchalant manner.

My daughter is in high demand and has limited time to shoot - she is in public school (where I plan on keeping her) and she has will lead a "normal teenaged existence" in addition to her modeling - I will not force her to sacrifice this in exchange for a career at her age.

So when I book a shoot with a photographer months in advance (because that is when she is available to shoot and they "claim" they are willing to wait in order to use her) be it paid, tfp or whatever - I expect to be comfortable in the fact that the photographer isn't going to "find something better to do with his/her time" and ignore the fact that he/she already has a commitment with us for a shoot and have the respect or common courtesy to contact me and let me know things have changed - a shoot I might add, where at times I secure an MUA, wardrobe stylist and/or hair stylist at no cost to the photographer.

So if you are going to offer advice concerning the OP - please read the OP instead of assuming it is "just another model flaking thread"

Thank you ;o)
Tracy

Tracey?

No one turned it into a model flaking on a photographer thread. You came in with a solution, advice and a question. People have given you their point of view on this. Does this mean that you are going to agree with this? No. But it is from another perspective of how others deal with this on a day to day basis.

You addressed the 'outting' thing. Ok, when I read that, it's like reading the flake vs photographer topics that frequent here. But so far, no one on here has addressed that that's what the topic is all about. Although your post down the line reads as one.

I think that it's safe to say that you have to do what you think is best for you because in the end, there isn't one perfect solutuion. And if it is the solution, it may not be for you. Something to think about. And I'd also think about outting others too. That may back fire on you. Food for thought.

Bryanna Nicole wrote:
Let me stop you all right there - this is actually a "numerous reputable photographers flaked" thread..

So when I book a shoot with a photographer months in advance (because that is when she is available to shoot and they "claim" they are willing to wait in order to use her) be it paid, tfp or whatever -

there are a couple of things to understand here.  most highly reputable photographers aren't booking tfp's months in advance.  nor are they making those type of commitments without the understanding that other work will probably take precedence. 

and while your daughter has a busy schedule with her school and you feel it necessary to book months in advance for her, the fact is this business does not revolve around the model's availability two months down the road for tfp or whatever.  either accept modeling as a vocation and work within tight-schedule booking parameters or take it on as a hobby and deal with the consequences.

the world of modeling and photography does not revolve around your daughter.  the sooner that is realized the more content you (and your daughter) will be in pursuit of this profession.

--face reality

Doug Swinskey wrote:
i am never going to trust an uinkown model for one of my projects...

and if a clients model flakes..well im still getting paid...and chances are, one of my models will get the gig..cause they will usually drop what they are doing for me...

I agree, I will never work with an unknown model for my projects or use an unknown model for a client. If a client wants me to work with "their" model, they are responsible for paying me if the model is a no-show.

Legacys 7 wrote:
Tracey?

No one turned it into a model flaking on a photographer thread. You came in with a solution, advice and a question. People have given you their point of view on this. Does this mean that you are going to agree with this? No. But it is from another perspective of how others deal with this on a day to day basis.

You addressed the 'outting' thing. Ok, when I read that, it's like reading the flake vs photographer topics that frequent here. But so far, no one on here has addressed that that's what the topic is all about. Although your post down the line reads as one.

I think that it's safe to say that you have to do what you think is best for you because in the end, there isn't one perfect solutuion. And if it is the solution, it may not be for you. Something to think about. And I'd also think about outting others too. That may back fire on you. Food for thought.

Actually.. if you read the debate posts between you and "Looknsee" they do indeed pertain to the model and nothing more - not how it affects the rest of the crew when this happens.. but how it affects you, the photographer.  But that may just me and my often skewed interpretation I suppose -

Legacys 7 wrote:
My advice on this is for both paid and non paid. If it's for a non paid gig, you always have backup models. If it's for paid gigs, have back up models. Contract or no contracts, if a model will back out she will back out.

This has nothing to do with "models" flaking? So am I to understand, everytime I book a shoot with a photographer, (paid or unpaid) I should also book a backup photographer in case the first one changes his/her mind somewhere along the line?

Legacys 7 wrote:
From a business point of view, I think that it's best to do your scouting elsewhere. MM is cool, but if I'm going to do this for a living paticularly in the advertisement/business industry, you'd better chose most of your models outside of here and make this a last choice to pick from. If not that, chose wisely from here.

nor this? So your advice here is to..  hmm.. not choose my photogs ( no matter their stellar reputation) from MM.. 

Legacys 7 wrote:
In the commercial/advertisement industry you don't have room for flakes when you have a seriuous project. Contracts, demand, command etc.. is one thing, but when you are on here and a model is speaking via email back n forth or back n forth on the phone with you and she never shows up for a intial meeting, well you haven't got passed first base. Scouting puts more of a security on making the shoot happen. I found this to work for me because it gives me the opportunity to scout for several models to see if the model will fit my concept, and to see if the model will be reliable. This puts me in a better position to chose and gaurentees that my project will become a reality.

no flaking of models mentioned here? - Guess Bry was just one of those "several models" scouted eh? and who cares if she is booked and suddenly dropped without warning.. she is.. after all..  just a model - you can book 5 or more of them without worry if one or more decide to flake right?

Legacys 7 wrote:
I wouldn't out that person out in the open. BUT if this model have done this several times, tell it amongst the photographers that you worked with as someone that they may not want to work with because she or he are known for doing this.

Here you are advising me to warn photogs I work with about "this model has done this several times"

So tell me where I am mistaken.. because if it looks like a horse, acts like a horse.. smells like a horse.. chances are pretty damned good - it's a horse.

FaceReality wrote:
there are a couple of things to understand here.  most highly reputable photographers aren't booking tfp's months in advance.  nor are they making those type of commitments without the understanding that other work will probably take precedence. 

and while your daughter has a busy schedule with her school and you feel it necessary to book months in advance for her, the fact is this business does not revolve around the model's availability two months down the road for tfp or whatever.  either accept modeling as a vocation and work within tight-schedule booking parameters or take it on as a hobby and deal with the consequences.

I do understand that - I also understand when a photographer says in October "I want her for a PAID shoot in January, please keep the date booked for me" and doesn't bother to mention - until January, that he's decided to use another model - that the shoe is indeed on the other foot - and the other work that could have taken precedence, (other offers for PAID work) got passed over for the basic "promise of employment" from someone else. (Nothing to do with a TFP here, not sure where you got the idea I was ONLY dealing with them)

FaceReality wrote:
the world of modeling and photography does not revolve around your daughter.  the sooner that is realized the more content you (and your daughter) will be in pursuit of this profession.

--face reality

I never said the world of modeling and/or photography revolve around my daughter - I am very well aware of this - however, that can be said about photographers as well - their time is no more valuable than ours..

Why does it seem to be such a chore to follow up on advanced bookings made?

Why don't people have respect for other people in this profession? and why do they expect people to respect them anyway?

Bryanna Nicole wrote:
This is slowly turning into another "the model flaked" thread..

Let me stop you all right there - this is actually a "numerous reputable photographers flaked" thread..

An action which has not only affected the model in question, but the MUA, wardrobe stylist and the hair stylist - so up to four people's lives are affected by these "professional photographers" who book shoots in a careless and nonchalant manner.

My daughter is in high demand and has limited time to shoot - she is in public school (where I plan on keeping her) and she has will lead a "normal teenaged existence" in addition to her modeling - I will not force her to sacrifice this in exchange for a career at her age.

So when I book a shoot with a photographer months in advance (because that is when she is available to shoot and they "claim" they are willing to wait in order to use her) be it paid, tfp or whatever - I expect to be comfortable in the fact that the photographer isn't going to "find something better to do with his/her time" and ignore the fact that he/she already has a commitment with us for a shoot and have the respect or common courtesy to contact me and let me know things have changed - a shoot I might add, where at times I secure an MUA, wardrobe stylist and/or hair stylist at no cost to the photographer.

So if you are going to offer advice concerning the OP - please read the OP instead of assuming it is "just another model flaking thread"

Thank you ;o)
Tracy

I for one, did not assume that.   Did you get to read my post at all?

Here's what I said in reply to your Original Post that appears on top of this page:

"It all depends on the market. If you are in demand, then you command the situation. Tell them about your booking fee, and stipulate in the agreement that it is (either) refundable only if canceled two weeks in advance (all dependent on you) or nonrefundable at all once you commit that date. It just seems fair because you may have turned down other gigs that came your way only to deal with such unprofessional conduct by some professionals.

All the best to you!"

StudioMona wrote:

I for one, did not assume that.   Did you get to read my post at all?

Here's what I said in reply to your Original Post that appears on top of this page:

"It all depends on the market. If you are in demand, then you command the situation. Tell them about your booking fee, and stipulate in the agreement that it is (either) refundable only if canceled two weeks in advance (all dependent on you) or nonrefundable at all once you commit that date. It just seems fair because you may have turned down other gigs that came your way only to deal with such unprofessional conduct by some professionals.

All the best to you!"

Yes.. and I appreciate your input - that is my entire point - she is in demand, so when people book her and then last minute either cancel or don't bother to follow up on the original booking.. it puts a very sour taste in the mouth of a young model - and in truth, I can't blame her for not wanting to work with them again.

Thank you and much success to you ;o)