Model
Fifi
Posts: 58134
Gainesville, Florida, US
Dawn Winter wrote:
It's no different than Victorias Secret hiring only female models without any visible handicaps.
It's no different than FHM magazine not featuring a multitude of women of different nationalities and of dark skin. Only difference with this mag is that they want someone who likes the same sex, not the same race.
There's a world of difference, especially when you're in a world of homophobes. I wouldn't feel at all comfortable working with someone who's an active and proud member of the KKK and vice versa. So I can see their point, because i'm sure they wouldn't feel comfortable working around someone who's all jumpy and nervous because they think everyone in the room is trying to jump thier bones. It's still discriminating.... to say that a male isonly there to oogle the models is ridiculous. I know lots of male photographers who are capable of disconnecting themselves when they are in a professional setting.
For anyone to believe that everyone just wants to jump their bones is pure paranoia.
Photographer
Michael Southwick
Posts: 534
Rock Island, Illinois, US
Like I previously stated if you feel you are capable of doing the job apply for it. If they deny you the job based soley on your not being a lesbian sue them.
Photographer
David Kuenley O
Posts: 118
Chiang Mai, Northern, Thailand
karennn wrote:
UnoMundo Photography wrote:
if there was a magazine for black men and they only wanted black men involved with it, i wouldnt hear anyone complaining. LOL... to be young and naive again.
David
Photographer
David Kuenley O
Posts: 118
Chiang Mai, Northern, Thailand
DawnWinter wrote:
It's no different than Victorias Secret hiring only female models without any visible handicaps. Dawn Winter, the only reason Victoria's Secret "gets away with it" is that there are certain jobs that have what are called BFOQs (bona fide occupational qualifications). Looking for a sperm doner? Most likely going to be a man. Looking for a wet nurse (look it up)? Most likely going to be a woman. Looking for a photographer? I know as many male photographers as lesbian phtographers. Gender, race, sexual orientation don't matter. All that matters is how good your images are.
Photographer
UnoMundo
Posts: 47532
Olympia, Washington, US
Remember Craigslists getting into legal limbo, because there were housing ads that said, asian only, cacausian only, gay only.....
Model
Fifi
Posts: 58134
Gainesville, Florida, US
DavidsStudio wrote:
Dawn Winter, the only reason Victoria's Secret "gets away with it" is that there are certain jobs that have what are called BFOQs (bona fide occupational qualifications). Looking for a sperm doner? Most likely going to be a man. Looking for a wet nurse (look it up)? Most likely going to be a woman. Looking for a photographer? I know as many male photographers as lesbian phtographers. Gender, race, sexual orientation don't matter. All that matters is how good your images are. But, I'm Lamonica. 
Model
Fifi
Posts: 58134
Gainesville, Florida, US
DavidsStudio wrote:
Dawn Winter, the only reason Victoria's Secret "gets away with it" is that there are certain jobs that have what are called BFOQs (bona fide occupational qualifications). Looking for a sperm doner? Most likely going to be a man. Looking for a wet nurse (look it up)? Most likely going to be a woman. Looking for a photographer? I know as many male photographers as lesbian phtographers. Gender, race, sexual orientation don't matter. All that matters is how good your images are. Whew... ok 
Photographer
David Kuenley O
Posts: 118
Chiang Mai, Northern, Thailand
Lamonica wrote:
But, I'm Lamonica. I know. Sorry. Tried to cut and paste something that didn't work.
Photographer
Daniel Norton
Posts: 1745
New York, New York, US
UnoMundo Photography wrote:
Funny, I remember Congress passing a tiny tiny law says you cant do that. Please post a link to that law. I'm fairly sure it doesn't exist. I was under the belief that's why companies say the are "equal opportunity employers" they get certain benefits from being like that, if this mag doesn't care about what ever those might be, they can hire whoever they want.
Just my opinion.BTW they have places all over the US, esp. in Florida that won't rent/sell to anyone under 55.
Model
Jakki Browne
Posts: 3457
Los Angeles, California, US
I honestly don't have problem with the post (I think I actually ran across it on craigslist). I guess what they are trying to do is not waste people's time and explain exactly what they want. I have seen several postings on CL that say only asians and cauasians, and I think that is fine. I would not want to waste my time submitting to something knowing my submissions would just end up in the trash. What they COULD have done was allowed everyone to submit and then discarded the submissions that did not fit their criteria. But again that would waste their time and the time of those who submitted.
Photographer
UnoMundo
Posts: 47532
Olympia, Washington, US
Daniel Norton wrote:
Please post a link to that law. I'm fairly sure it doesn't exist. I was under the belief that's why companies say the are "equal opportunity employers" they get certain benefits from being like that, if this mag doesn't care about what ever those might be, they can hire whoever they want.
Just my opinion.BTW they have places all over the US, esp. in Florida that won't rent/sell to anyone under 55. * Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Title VII), which prohibits employment discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin;
Photographer
David Kuenley O
Posts: 118
Chiang Mai, Northern, Thailand
Daniel Norton wrote:
Please post a link to that law. I'm fairly sure it doesn't exist. I was under the belief that's why companies say the are "equal opportunity employers" they get certain benefits from being like that, if this mag doesn't care about what ever those might be, they can hire whoever they want.
Just my opinion.BTW they have places all over the US, esp. in Florida that won't rent/sell to anyone under 55. Here you go Daniel. Check out section (a)(1)
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/ … e002-.html
Photographer
UnoMundo
Posts: 47532
Olympia, Washington, US
Jakki Browne wrote:
I honestly don't have problem with the post (I think I actually ran across it on craigslist). I guess what they are trying to do is not waste people's time and explain exactly what they want. I have seen several postings on CL that say only asians and cauasians, and I think that is fine. I would not want to waste my time submitting to something knowing my submissions would just end up in the trash. What they COULD have done was allowed everyone to submit and then discarded the submissions that did not fit their criteria. But again that would waste their time and the time of those who submitted. people do that all the time jackie. they have to get all resumes and discard some based on what ever reason they choose. But they CANNOT tell you you cant apply. That is what we are discussing here. The ad is telling you you cant apply for a job unless you are lesbian; that IS against the law. period.
Photographer
A Perfect Reflection
Posts: 351
PLANTSVILLE, Connecticut, US
UnoMundo Photography wrote:
* Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Title VII), which prohibits employment discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin; I love it here 
Photographer
Makura
Posts: 308
Pleasanton, California, US
Yes, it is blatant discrimination -- but try making a legal case out of it!
As a corporate executive of many years experience, I can tell you that if I asked "Are you a lesbian?" during a job interview and did not give that individual the job (regardless of the fact that the applicant was illiterate, a self-admitted crack addict and expressed the desire to beat the beejesus out of your entire staff on a daily basis if hired), you would lose in a court of law simply based on the question. Yet, in today's America, you can legally get away with not hiring someone because they only speak English, are not a lesbian, etc., etc.
Try running an ad that reads: "Only white, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant males need apply.", and see how fast the ACLU will be calling on you to place the aforementioned foot in your posterior...
Photographer
Bryan Benoit
Posts: 2106
Miami, Florida, US
DavidsStudio wrote:
Here you go Daniel. Check out section (a)(1)
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/ … e002-.html The law is pretty clear... the discrimination factors are clearly stated as "..race, color, religion, sex, or national origin ..".
I am not a lawyer (and suspect that most posting here aren't either) but the last time I checked "Lesbian" is not a color, a religion, a sex, or a national origin... It is a 'sexual orientation". Maybe there is another law somewhere that talks about this but it is not the one quoted above.
Photographer
AJ Garcia
Posts: 1416
Aliso Viejo, California, US
Bryan Benoit wrote:
The law is pretty clear... the discrimination factors are clearly stated as "..race, color, religion, sex, or national origin ..".
I am not a lawyer (and suspect that most posting here aren't either) but the last time I checked "Lesbian" is not a color, a religion, a sex, or a national origin... It is a 'sexual orientation". Maybe there is another law somewhere that talks about this but it is not the one quoted above. http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/94-1039.ZD.html
supreme court case stating that sexual orientation is considered on the same basis as race and religion, thus putting involving it in the list mentioned above, and it being just as protected as color, religion, sex or national origin.
Photographer
Curt at photoworks
Posts: 31812
Riverside, California, US
karennn wrote:
how could i miss this?
from the screen shot..."ADDITIONAL SKILLS: LESBIANS PREFERRED."
doesnt say you have to be a lesbian.
so i still dont see any discrimination. lesbianism is a skill? 
Photographer
AJ Garcia
Posts: 1416
Aliso Viejo, California, US
also, good point might be if someone were to put up an ad that said "ONLY Straight Women/Men NEED APPLY" then that person might get a complaint from the various gay and lesbian right groups out there. thought id put that out there.
Photographer
Makura
Posts: 308
Pleasanton, California, US
lesbianism is a skill? Yes, to do it right...
Photographer
Bryan Benoit
Posts: 2106
Miami, Florida, US
Alberto Garcia wrote:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/94-1039.ZD.html
supreme court case stating that sexual orientation is considered on the same basis as race and religion, thus putting involving it in the list mentioned above, and it being just as protected as color, religion, sex or national origin. Again I am not a lawyer so take this with a BIG grain of salt...
The link you provided is for the opinion of the dissenting judges. The link to the actual ruling can be found at:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/94-1039.ZO.html
If you read the actual text the reason of the particular ruling (striking down Ammendent 2 in Colorado) has nothing to do with discrimination based on sexual orientation.. The ruling is based on the fact that Amenment 2 was a law specifically written to single out a particular group. That is what was found illegal (kind of funny as the original link posted is to a law that specifically singles out the Cumunist(sp?) party for discrimation... but that is another can of worms).
They struck down the law.. they did not address the actual practice.
I am not saying that it isn't wrong. I think that discrination is wrong.
But I refrain from any further comments about the actual law as I am not a lawyer. Unlike others I prefer not to quote law as If I knew what I was talking about.
Photographer
Class Act Photography
Posts: 6376
STUDIO CITY, California, US
Oooh baby baby, it's a wild world...
Photographer
Legacys 7
Posts: 33899
San Francisco, California, US
Bryan Benoit wrote:
The law is pretty clear... the discrimination factors are clearly stated as "..race, color, religion, sex, or national origin ..".
I am not a lawyer (and suspect that most posting here aren't either) but the last time I checked "Lesbian" is not a color, a religion, a sex, or a national origin... It is a 'sexual orientation". Maybe there is another law somewhere that talks about this but it is not the one quoted above. Even with the sexual lifestyle, it's still descrimination even against a hetrosexual female. and if I'm not mistaken, there are laws/civil rights that protect and allow gays to work in the workforce.
Model
Tiara Lestari
Posts: 11436
Jhanaydāh, Jhanaydāh, Bangladesh
Curt Burgess wrote:
lesbianism is a skill? no, but bisexual is.
Photographer
Satan Bug
Posts: 127
Hell, Nord-Trøndelag, Norway
I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body!!
Photographer
Shadow Dancer
Posts: 9782
Bellingham, Washington, US
Hell, go on and apply. Just tell them you have a really big clitoris! Maybe they will want to kiss it.
Model
UnavailableNonExistant
Posts: 294
Columbus, Ohio, US
Lamonica wrote:
It's still discriminating.... to say that a male isonly there to oogle the models is ridiculous. I know lots of male photographers who are capable of disconnecting themselves when they are in a professional setting.
For anyone to believe that everyone just wants to jump their bones is pure paranoia. And how many paranoid "I need an escort" threads are on this site?
A lot of straight people are uncomfortable around gays and lesbians.
Model
UnavailableNonExistant
Posts: 294
Columbus, Ohio, US
DavidsStudio wrote:
Dawn Winter, the only reason Victoria's Secret "gets away with it" is that there are certain jobs that have what are called BFOQs (bona fide occupational qualifications). Looking for a sperm doner? Most likely going to be a man. Looking for a wet nurse (look it up)? Most likely going to be a woman. Looking for a photographer? I know as many male photographers as lesbian phtographers. Gender, race, sexual orientation don't matter. All that matters is how good your images are. You're missing my point, they get away with it, period. As does Playboy, Maxim, King, etc...
I have still yet to see a man walking around in a Hooters outfit trying to serve me hotwings. lol
Model
UnavailableNonExistant
Posts: 294
Columbus, Ohio, US
UnoMundo Photography wrote:
BS god you are gorgeous , but wrong.
I have hired people in the past. I did not ask anyone if they were in the Klan or the Panthers. Not my business.
One of my workers was a "son of the south" he did his job. WE would have "discussions" at lunch time. But he did his job. Not me to judge his views. That's you, we're talking about others.
And thanks for the compliment. lol
Photographer
Brian Diaz
Posts: 65617
Danbury, Connecticut, US
Every day I see on my street signs in store windows reading, "Sales girl wanted."
I'm often half tempted to apply.
Photographer
Vivus Hussein Denuo
Posts: 64211
New York, New York, US
I'm not aware that federal law prohibits discrimination based on sexual orientation, but various state or local laws might. But the ad may be illegal anyway. It discriminates based on gender, since only lesbians need apply and only women can be lesbians. But as someone indicated above, there is a business exception to the civil rights laws. If, let's say, it's a lesbian magazine, and the magazine is able to make a case that only lesbians can fill certain positions, for purely practical reasons, the ad would be OK. It's the same reason that Radio City Music Hall can get away with only hiring women as Rockettes, despite Title 7. But offhand, I can't think of a photographic job that only lesbians can handle.
Photographer
Vivus Hussein Denuo
Posts: 64211
New York, New York, US
Brian Diaz wrote:
Every day I see on my street signs in store windows reading, "Sales girl wanted."
I'm often half tempted to apply. A guy was giving out fliers advertising a "Living Well Lady" gym, but only to women. I asked him why he didn't give me one. He smiled, hemmed and hawed, etc. But I didn't get on my high horse, as I once might have. Some battles are not worth fighting. Let the ladies have their gym.
Photographer
Brian Diaz
Posts: 65617
Danbury, Connecticut, US
Vivus Denuo wrote:
A guy was giving out fliers advertising a "Living Well Lady" gym, but only to women. I asked him why he didn't give me one. He smiled, hemmed and hawed, etc. But I didn't get on my high horse, as I once might have. Some battles are not worth fighting. Let the ladies have their gym. Lucille Roberts?
I have no problem with women's gyms. It's a private club, and they can set whatever standards of membership they want.
Now, if that guy had been turned down for the job of handing out fliers because he was a man, then there would be a problem.
Photographer
Brian Diaz
Posts: 65617
Danbury, Connecticut, US
Vivus Denuo wrote:
But as someone indicated above, there is a business exception to the civil rights laws. If, let's say, it's a lesbian magazine, and the magazine is able to make a case that only lesbians can fill certain positions, for purely practical reasons, the ad would be OK. True. If the ad had read, "Must demonstrate a lesbian perspective," there would be no problem, as it is theoretically possible for a man or a straight woman to empathize with lesbians. As written, I'd call the ad illegal.
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