Jason McKendricks wrote:
I don't know how common they are, but yes, they often try to pass themselves off as pros.

And since many budding models are naive, they often succeed. All you need is a really big lens.

Trevor Snyder wrote:

And since many budding models are naive, they often succeed. All you need is a really big lens.

Ha...big lens. That's true. Emphasize the gear over the actual photos.

Justin N Lane wrote:
go to any photo related trade show and you'll find more than you can shake a stick at...

Truth is brutal yet honest and cleansing.

FemmeArt wrote:
Why the negativity?  Seriously, do you guys have nothing better to do than denounce others?

You guys remind me of the movie, "Grumpy Old Men..."  (regardless of your actual age)

Translation: There's one right here.

Justin N Lane wrote:
go to any photo related trade show and you'll find more than you can shake a stick at...

I try to stay away from tade shows now for that very reason.  Too much testosterone out there in one place.  So I agree in this case..

Aaron S wrote:

Translation: There's one right here.

HEY...What are you saying....Okay I admit it.  I am a grumpy old man...LAUGH
Coffee anyone..

Translation: There's one right here.

Of course--anyone who dares to question your negativity must be nothing more than a rapist/serial killer with a camera.

Seriously, I could go on a rampage defending my work and professionalism, but why waste the time with you?

I just think it is a shame that so many of my fellow photographers choose to spend their time tearing others down, rather than building them up.  That is your idea of professionalism?  Methinks not...

FemmeArt wrote:

Of course--anyone who dares to question your negativity must be nothing more than a rapist/serial killer with a camera.

Seriously, I could go on a rampage defending my work and professionalism, but why waste the time with you?

I just think it is a shame that so many of my fellow photographers choose to spend their time tearing others down, rather than building them up.  That is your idea of professionalism?  Methinks not...

Other Photographers = More Competition = Bad = Berating People Until They Kill Themselves = The Positive Power of Nagative Thinking

I am very professional in my internet forum business.

Millennium Force Produc wrote:

HEY...What are you saying....Okay I admit it.  I am a grumpy old man...LAUGH
Coffee anyone..

Seee...I know a penis when I see one.

FemmeArt wrote:

Of course--anyone who dares to question your negativity must be nothing more than a rapist/serial killer with a camera.

Seriously, I could go on a rampage defending my work and professionalism, but why waste the time with you?

I just think it is a shame that so many of my fellow photographers choose to spend their time tearing others down, rather than building them up.  That is your idea of professionalism?  Methinks not...

I certainly wasn't attempting to tear anyone down. General comments about the state of affairs don't necessarily constitute negativity. In fact, some "pros" are just as bad as any GWC when it comes to trying to take advantage of models or have "lens envy." When I'm dealing with an individual, I make judgment calls individually and use my own internal compass to make final determinations on whether or not I should have a negative attitude towards any given model or photog, regardless of his or her level of experience, lens collection, or success in the industry.

FemmeArt wrote:
Of course--anyone who dares to question your negativity must be nothing more than a rapist/serial killer with a camera.

Seriously, I could go on a rampage defending my work and professionalism, but why waste the time with you?

I just think it is a shame that so many of my fellow photographers choose to spend their time tearing others down, rather than building them up.  That is your idea of professionalism?  Methinks not...

It may be that i don't have any coffee yet.  I got th impression he was ribbing you.  A joke.   A not so subtle attempt at humor.

Personally i don't think your a gwc, you know how to crop.

I certainly wasn't attempting to tear anyone down. General comments about the state of affairs don't necessarily constitute negativity. In fact, some "pros" are just as bad as any GWC when it comes to trying to take advantage of models or have "lens envy." When I'm dealing with an individual, I make judgment calls individually and use my own internal compass to make final determinations on whether or not I should have a negative attitude towards any given model or photog, regardless of his or her level of experience, lens collection, or success in the industry.

Agreed--truce?  Great port, by the way.  I am definitely a fan of your work...

Trevor Snyder wrote:

And since many budding models are naive, they often succeed. All you need is a really big lens.

Size matters, eh?

Yeah, baby, yeah!
I have a really big one!

Stevens Photography wrote:

Size matters, eh?

Yeah, baby, yeah!
I have a really big one!

Cecil Sharps wrote:

It may be that i don't have any coffee yet.  I got th impression he was ribbing you.  A joke.   A not so subtle attempt at humor.

Personally i don't think your a gwc, you know how to crop.

FemmeArt wrote:

Agreed--truce?  Great port, by the way.  I am definitely a fan of your work...

Thank you. No truce is necessary because we were not fighting, just discussing. I"ll buy you a cup of java if we meet in the future, or a beer. Your choice. And I like your port too.

FemmeArt wrote:
Why the negativity?  Seriously, do you guys have nothing better to do than denounce others?

You guys remind me of the movie, "Grumpy Old Men..."  (regardless of your actual age)

LOL

Cecil Sharps wrote:

It may be that i don't have any coffee yet.  I got th impression he was ribbing you.  A joke.   A not so subtle attempt at humor.

Personally i don't think your a gwc, you know how to crop.

Ahhh... Big Lens + Cropping = Pro?  I think I got it now.  I need to buy a bigger lens; I think I'm ok in the cropping area.

Millennium Force Produc wrote:

I try to stay away from tade shows now for that very reason.  Too much testosterone out there in one place.  So I agree in this case..

  Oh, I'd love to attend one of those just to witness the show within the show.
I'm guessing it'd be terribly insightful and most entertaining.

FemmeArt wrote:
Why the negativity?  Seriously, do you guys have nothing better to do than denounce others?

You guys remind me of the movie, "Grumpy Old Men..."  (regardless of your actual age)

This reminds me of something I've noticed over the years....

when a GWC learns a new trick, they keep it a closely guarded secret, in fear that someone else will use it.

a Lot of pros I know share information to help each other, in the end it make us all look good.

Jigo wrote:
I get the whole GWC persona here. I just have never really encountered one in real life or on the interwebs. Are they very common for models to run across? Do they really try to present themselves as professionals?

Pardon my ignorance.

The way you judge any photographer,amuater or pro, is by the way he treats you as a person,his references ,the money or other compensation he pays  and most importantly the quality of the work.Period.

retphoto wrote:

This reminds me of something I've noticed over the years....

when a GWC learns a new trick, they keep it a closely guarded secret, in fear that someone else will use it.

a Lot of pros I know share information to help each other, in the end it make us all look good.

It works the same way in any other field. Information technology "pros" are notorious for this. My predecessor at my day job got fired because he didn't communicate and hoarded knowledge.

Trevor Snyder wrote:

And since many budding models are naive, they often succeed. All you need is a really big lens.

lol probably not even ...

Bondo Photo wrote:
I've never encountered a guy who I would consider a GWC, but I personally know a few models who have shot with a few.

They don't get out much, obviously.

Jigo wrote:
I get the whole GWC persona here. I just have never really encountered one in real life or on the interwebs. Are they very common for models to run across? Do they really try to present themselves as professionals?

Pardon my ignorance.

Most GWC's are of the "S" or "Sincere" variety (SGWC).  They buff their cameras, put Helmut on the coffee table, and entice Internet models into all sorts of faux decadent, fashion, glamour, and all around faux sexy shooting scenarios. 

As I think model NC17 suggests, Internet model-photographer culture--guys with cameras and girls gettin' nekkid and posting that work by the tens of tens of thousands on the web--is its own thing and while it may sooner or later wear thin as the latest indulgent thing to do, it adds heat to the economy.  Professionalism: watch American Idol: everybody who shows up is a pro. 

NC17 wrote:
I know plenty of them. They consist of a substantial amount of my market and bring in a high percentage of my profits through modeling.

I have no problem with that.

Many of them think so highly of themselves and their own work. Being able to get girls naked makes them feel powerful and incharge. "I photograph naked (or semi naked) girls because _________" whatever reason they come up with. Part of the problem is that several of the ones that I have met are actually successful photographers. They are able to market their images to eye-candy types sites, since that is all that they are taking images of. Unfortunately, that success blows their own egos way out of proportion.

They are often the ones that you find with lists of girls that they have photographed in their ports that are MILES long. It is rare to find any one of those girls working a second time with that photographer.

They prey upon new girls because the new girls can easily be swayed by flashing several $$$ signs. The girls don't know whats going on, and fall for it, thinking that because the photographer is offering to pay that it means that they know what they are doing.

Let me also clarify that many GWC's do go on to become very good photographers that don't fall into the GWC category anymore. For many of them its the excitement of just starting out, they get ahead of themselves and want to run out and take pictures of pretty girls before they really understand how the camera works and what the difference is between a snapshot and a piece of art. They simply often enter the photography arena not being aware of what they don't know. Hopefully their head isn't over inflated to the degree that they can't ever get past that point.

By the same token, models often begin that way too. They don't know what they don't know, and all they do know is that they're a model. Many of them simply fade after a short time, but there are others, including myself, that stuck around long enough to figure out how this works and make it work for them.

Its not blatant negativity, FemmeArt, its the truth. There is a VERY large group of photographers out there that are only involved in this for the abililty and capacity to get girls naked. Most of them are entirely harmless, they just enjoy what they do.

There is nothing wrong with that in the world. Frankly they support a good deal of my modeling income, so don't knock them too hard!

Truth.....it's brisk!

skint lizard designs wrote:
The GWC label that exists is why I prefer shooting models that are designers or are studying to be designers. Personally, I prefer a model with whom I can collaborate with, not many of them out there. NC17, I do believe you are the exception to that rule. For me, someone who is in design can see the vision I have and contribute with their own visions. Just today, I met with a design student/model and we scouted locations. I do have my own ideas, but I found hers refreshing as well and look forward to shooting those ideas as well...By the way, it's not the size of the lens, but how you use it. Trevor, cool port. I look forward to seeing more of your work.

Clayton

Thanks for the complement, Clayton. I do have a very strong art background, I've been doing art of all varieties since I was a child. I studied under the same woman for all of my school days. So I do bring something to the table an understanding of what good composition is and what lighting can do for you if used properly. I just get to be IN the art now, which is pretty darn cool to me

retphoto wrote:

This reminds me of something I've noticed over the years....when a GWC learns a new trick, they keep it a closely guarded secret, in fear that someone else will use it.

GWC's learn tricks? Like...hey, look how I setup my tripod with no hands?

JODI LEVIN wrote:
SO much tension in the air. If they take pictures and send me a disc of pretty pictures, and dont charge my mortgage payment for them... so be it. Its hard enough to get a good picture (don't say its cuz' im ugly!) In anticipation that it may be published or put to good use. It's also difficult to find an distinguised photographer willing to take a gamble on someone with potential.

Actually its not that hard. You simply have to look good and hunt for the photographers. It takes WORK to become established. The attitude that is displayed is directly related to the work that you recieve. The more positive your attitude, and more professional your behavior, the more likely you are going to be to recieve (good) jobs. The work that you get out of this is directly proportional to the work that you put into it.

Oh, and Michael Pandolfo, I'm SO glad I wasn't drinking anything when I read that.