Forums > General Industry > I Just Need to Vent

Photographer

Art Schotz

Posts: 2879

Lima, Ohio, US

Yea, I’m just a GWC.  The job that pays the bills is engineering.  My regular job allows me to do my work and not have to depend on too many other people to complete my tasks.  I’ve been interested and active in photography since I was 13.  Just so you don’t have to do the math, that’s 44 years ago.

A little over a year ago, a friend invited me to a group shoot.  She had to beg some of the models there to work with me and my pics showed that.  They looked bored and tired.  And my pics were pretty crappy too.  But I was hooked anyway.

I started inviting everyone I could find to shoot with me and a few ladies cooperated.  But failure to getting shoots scheduled on a consistent basis frustrated me.  Some of the models and friends from the group shoot assured me that more models would consider me serious if I had studio space.

So I searched around and finally came up with an ideal space to use as my studio.  It’s above our town’s art gallery!  How cool is that?

Eventually I was able to convince more models to work with me and I’m finally at the point where my work has improved and I have a full schedule.

The improvement is attributable to those ladies and gentlemen who have come to my studio and allowed me to photograph them.  I’ve discovered that the more I shoot, the better I get. (Duh!)  To that end, I stay as busy as I possibly can, without negatively affecting my day job or my marriage. 

I am fairly open as to what I will shoot.  I don’t like to depict violence.  That’s been my only limitation to date.

A few months ago, I decided to try to do something to increase the likelihood that models I’ve scheduled would actually show up for a shoot.  I decided to start paying for one or two models per month to work with me.  I regularly offer to reimburse travel expenses.

Of the first two models I scheduled for a paid shoot, one cancelled at the last minute.  The other, Hope Sheets, was a fantastic experience.  Since then, I’ve done paid shoots with several other models who were also a great learning experience for me.  They were Ann Mitch and Jessica Ryann. 

Because of financial conditions, I am not often able to offer paid shoots to many models.  And there’s not too many models who I would be willing to pay who would work for what I can afford.

Over the past 15 months, my work has improved significantly and I have less trouble finding models willing to schedule a shoot with me. I choose those words carefully because of my experience this past weekend.

I like to allow plenty of time to concentrate my efforts for each model I work with.  I schedule only two shoots per day and only on weekends.  This past weekend, all four of the models I had booked either cancelled or flaked.  None of the cancellations were more than 24 hours in advance. 
While I do have weekends where three of the four models I have scheduled actually show up, I always have cancellations and consider that to be a solid part of the status quo.  The cancellation rate seems to run in cycles, ranging from low to high.  The sad part is that it’s never zero!

Experiencing the high cancellation and flake rate from TFCD shoots, I’ve decided to try to break the bonds of non-commercial photography by starting 2 projects that will eventually create an income for me and those that participate with me.  Believing that the promise of money would help improve the reliability of models to work with me, I’ve tried to schedule shoots in support of these projects.

My shoots this past weekend were partially in support of those projects. 

And that brings me to the point of this post.  While I recognize that many photographers have a similar experience and say it doesn’t bother them, I find it extremely frustrating.

I would like to have a higher opinion of the people I work with, as a group.  So far, the model side of our industry has shown themselves to be highly unreliable and fickle.  Even some of the models have cancelled on me at one time or another.  So I find it difficult to believe I can depend on many of them. 

However, there are a few who are as dependable as time.  The one that stands out to me is the lovely and creative Ms. Isadora VonPainne.  When all else fails, she is always there, ready and eager to get to work.

In previous posts, I have been advised to improve my work in order to attract more and better models to work with me.  That’s sort of a “Catch-22”.  Every time I have the opportunity to work with a model, I learn something new.  Maybe it’s something to look for, or a new lighting scheme, or something about my camera, or …     And because of that, my work does improve.  I’m no Peter Gowland, but I’m turning out better images than when I started this effort.

The frustrating part is that the improvement doesn’t come from just sitting and thinking about it.  You have to put those ideas into practice.  You have to shoot a lot to see improvement.  That’s sorta tough to do without the cooperation of a subject.  And that’s my frustration… the Catch-22”.

So there you have it.  That’s my vent for this week.  You are welcome to add your comments, suggestions, criticism, advice, and snipes.  Have at it!

Jan 08 07 10:23 pm Link

Photographer

Bob Helm Photography

Posts: 18922

Cherry Hill, New Jersey, US

Venting is good, we all need to sometimes and it is very easy when we put a lot of time effort and $$ into preparing for a shoot and then the llamas does not show and we expect others to be professional too.

Jan 08 07 10:59 pm Link

Model

Kizzy

Posts: 12249

Tulsa, Oklahoma, US

I know how frustrated you must be...people are so rude and inconsiderate.  I wish we lived closer and I would shoot with you.

Jan 08 07 11:10 pm Link

Photographer

Fotogene

Posts: 562

Chicago Heights, Illinois, US

Models of the age we tend to get for TFCD / P have no professional like experiences in their life to teach them that making plans and treating them like the weather is not ok. They are, by definition, pretty and young. They regularly get hit on and give false phone numbers, make plans to meet with no intention to show up and, unfortunately, schedule photoshoots that they "forget."

Requiring refundable deposits will both limit the models who will work TFCD and insure that they show up. $10 - 50 bucks is a common deposit and to the young models, $10 - 20 will be most important. I say young because I have a few years on you and I only schedule TFCD's with models who are at least "of age" and able to sign and be responsible for themselves, even if the no-shows are a percentage of every series of shoots, even when it is a paying gig!

One way to eliminate this is to go thru an agency.

Jan 08 07 11:10 pm Link

Photographer

Daguerre

Posts: 4082

Orange, California, US

This is all par for the course.  You're right where we've all been-- stuck in the mud.  Its the climbing out of the mud that is tricky.  Most do not succeed.

That is why the saying exists that the only ones who fail are the ones who quit-- still stuck in the mud.

It takes determination and skill to get out of that mud and fly.

In my opinion, you're at the stage of developement where the use of a reference book by yourself would do you good.  That will be your 'text book', and improve your rate of success by 10 fold.

Jan 09 07 02:39 am Link

Photographer

Sockpuppet Studios

Posts: 7862

San Francisco, California, US

Your oodles of right that the more you shoot the more you will learn...
Who says you HAVE to practice on models???
or even models you haven't shot before..
Try
Dress forms, maniquins, friends, family members, eggs, pets, more friends....celery, neighboors pets...

Try mentoring under another photographer you admire...

Jan 09 07 02:48 am Link

Model

Iris

Posts: 950

Dallas, Texas, US

Jan 09 07 02:51 am Link

Photographer

DB Imagery

Posts: 156

Altadena, California, US

They sound like Hootchies to me!

Jan 09 07 02:56 am Link

Photographer

Bermudian Sinny

Posts: 143

Saint George, Saint George, Bermuda

I feel your pain!  Engineering pays my bills as well and there is never a shortage of work! So, when I book a shoot, I am sacrificing time at the office or with my family to improve my craft.

Everyone is different so I won't place all models in the same boat by saying they are one thing or the other. Some models will be great and some will be not so great. I am sure they say the same about us photographers!

My view is that it is part of the growing process in this industry. It can be frustrating but it is what it is.

Good luck!
SW

Jan 09 07 03:11 am Link

Photographer

Leonard Gee Photography

Posts: 18096

Sacramento, California, US

Art, seems to me your view is a bit off. This isn't an agency. It's the internet. You book peope on it like you expect an agency model to behave.

Most models on the internet have no one to teach them to be professional and no consequences will result if they don't show or if they cancel with an e-mail to you 30 minutes after the time they're scheduled to show up. You will be constantly disappointed if you think about it that way. With an agnecy model, they'd get booted out the first time it happens.

A new internet model will discover that I seldom even setup for the shoot until after they've shown up and most of the time I have other things to do. If they don't show up, I'm still working on something else. If it's a location, I've got something else to do there.

Jan 09 07 03:24 am Link

Photographer

Star

Posts: 17966

Los Angeles, California, US

I am just happy that my flake rate has gone below 25% and I have only twice had a no show no call. I have had a high percentage of models, around the 25% mentioned, who cancel a few days to a day before the shoot. That happens, I tend to see the warning signs now and stay away from models who exhibit them.

Some of the signs are asking questions after they commit to the shoot like where is the shoot, what will these be used for, what time will we be shooting till, what do I wear. All of these have already been covered before I confirm a shoot. It shows that they are not paying attention.

Oh and I have people confirm a minimum of four times before a shoot, at the time of booking, when they get the information, a few days before the shoot, and the night before. I say please confirm this message and if they don't I write to ask if they are still coming. If I don't hear back I cancel them off the shoot and book someone else.

Star

Jan 09 07 03:48 am Link

Photographer

Jak Wad Photography

Posts: 42

Detroit, Michigan, US

Thanks for the post!

Make yourself a list of your models. Have 3 circles after each name. 3 strikes, well you can choose that answer, keep that in your reference book to share, if you share prospects with others. I meet with models first build a profile sheet before shoots, then confirm, I can count on 1 hand on no-shows...Per Year. This'll help...works for me. Thanks again for taking the time to post!
Happy 2007!



>.........Jimmi

Jan 09 07 04:01 am Link

Photographer

Art Schotz

Posts: 2879

Lima, Ohio, US

Kizzy wrote:
I know how frustrated you must be...people are so rude and inconsiderate.  I wish we lived closer and I would shoot with you.

Me too.  You're gorgeous!

Jan 09 07 06:00 am Link

Photographer

Art Schotz

Posts: 2879

Lima, Ohio, US

Leonard Gee Photography wrote:
Art, seems to me your view is a bit off. This isn't an agency. It's the internet. You book peope on it like you expect an agency llama to behave.

Most llamas on the internet have no one to teach them to be professional and no consequences will result if they don't show or if they cancel with an e-mail to you 30 minutes after the time they're scheduled to show up. You will be constantly disappointed if you think about it that way. With an agnecy llama, they'd get booted out the first time it happens.

A new internet llama will discover that I seldom even setup for the shoot until after they've shown up and most of the time I have other things to do. If they don't show up, I'm still working on something else. If it's a location, I've got something else to do there.

I only expect people to be true to their word.  Obviously, that's expecting too much.

Jan 09 07 06:08 am Link

Photographer

Rich Davis

Posts: 3136

Gulf Breeze, Florida, US

You should be happy to be an engineer and not a McD manager.

Jan 09 07 07:42 am Link

Photographer

commart

Posts: 6078

Hagerstown, Maryland, US

I can see some objections to appearing in the work itself--the bikini snaps, the spreads, the Chynah shine, etc.--but rather than belabor what you've been doing in both the photography and the business of it, I would suggest a whole new point of departure using the resources you've established.

First, it may help at this point to focus for a while on a specialty--just beauty, just fashion, just glamour, even just still life and product (choose)--intellectually nail its baselines, conventions, and values and then use your studio to prepare to fully apply that knowledge and do it your way.  As has been pointed out, you don't need models to test gear or lighting schemes--models are for making art.

Next: as in any other business, when you hook on to qualified and reliable talent, it helps to hold on to it, which here may mean working over time with models who have worked out well for you.  It may also mean upping your own ante from both artistic and commercial perspectives to justify obtaining models through an agency.  The core of your complaint here--i.e., models who flake--adds to a familiar Internet whine that always refers back to the need to improve one's  qualifying or sourcing methods.

Finally, and speaking here in my own 50's, I would take seriously the notion of transitioning a serious art interest into a fully fledged retirement profession, which may mean taking a step back and producing across-the-board improvements in operations.  Whether you want brides in your studio or executives, families, or product, I don't know but you have the space . . . and the lighting gear (or will) . . . and will have the experience as well to do that.  Why not start that process today?   "Customers who don't pay" may replace "models who flake" as a source of concern, but that may turn out a happier worry, especially as you have other income holding the fort.

Jan 09 07 08:46 am Link

Photographer

Rik Austin

Posts: 12165

Austin, Texas, US

Sometimes you just need to vent.  Sounds like you are getting enough models scheduled.  Thats a good start.  The ones that bug me are the ones that I spend a good bit of time working details out with and you would think were really interested and then they flake.  Still, its better that way than having them show and be flakey on the shot.  Glass is half-full I guess.

Jan 09 07 08:58 am Link