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How would you react...
...to someone that you don't know offering constructive criticism that was unsolicited. In perusing the MM universe I see many newer photographers and models, and even on rare occasion some that have been around a while, that have something in their portfolio or profile that just doesn't sit right with me. Am I out of line to point that out in an unsolicited format, so long as it's done in a constructive manner? I've done this a few times and have prefaced every comment by saying something along the lines of, "I'm by no means an expert...". Then I go on to tell them what it is I don't understand or don't like as much, and give any suggestions that I might have. I also try very hard to make sure that I find something positive to point out in their work or profile as well so that they don't get discouraged. Generally I get a very nice message back thanking me for the feedback, but on occasion I've gotten the "Who in the f@#$ do you think you are?" response. So I'm just curious, what would your response be if someone you didn't know (that willingly professed to be sub-professional level) offered constructive criticism? Are my good intentions here misdirected? Jan 07 07 10:05 am Link Just my 2 percent of a dollar here but I think that as long as you remember that it's not what you say to people but how you say it that counts and that some people will not be agreeable to un asked for advice then you've got no worries. Edit: The problem with 'criticism' is that it's often not only not asked for but also not constructive. Jan 07 07 10:08 am Link I think it is perfectly fair to give criticism whenever it is asked for. When it is not, you shouldn't be surprised if it is unwelcome. Jan 07 07 10:12 am Link Mostly, the viewing audience of your photography will not be other professionals. I simply see it as, any time you put your photographs in public, you are automatically inviting crique. Jan 07 07 10:17 am Link TXPhotog wrote: I don't disagree with you TX, but I guess my opinion is/was that if I personally had something in my portfolio that really created a positive or negative reaction in someone that I would want to know. I may or may not change or pull it based upon the feedback, but I'd like to know. To me it's all part of the process when someone wishes to improve or understand their work better. Jan 07 07 11:02 am Link Reasonable question. For me I'll take all the advice I can get. Perhaps when offering suggestions to others, one might just quickly jot a sentence that might not express the full thought & caveat and then if the recipient is in a grumpy mood, that's just human nature. Good reminder to me as well when I respond to a request to look at a portfolio. Thanks. Jan 07 07 11:07 am Link Here is an idea for you. Instead of giving an unsolicited critique, ask questions instead. For example instead of pointing out the "image 3" has muddy shadows and no contrast, ask why that photographer made that specific lighting decission. If you restucture the critique into something educational people in general will not take it that hard and may even come to the same conclusion themselves. Jan 07 07 11:12 am Link If you sent it to me via a private note, and your approach was polite, I would respond in kind. Putting an unsolicited critique in a tag or image comment, though, I don't think is fair. Jan 07 07 11:14 am Link Shyly wrote: Well then what do you want in image comments? Because, "OMG TAHT'S So KEWL!11" doesn't really do much for me. Jan 07 07 11:15 am Link I have found that not everyone takes criticism well. Particularly don't critique Fine Arts grads if you are an engineer. How cameras work is irrelevent. Jan 07 07 11:17 am Link TXPhotog wrote: What Tex said Jan 07 07 11:22 am Link Aaron S wrote: I do not feel the Tags and Comments in the profile section are for critiques. I see images I do not like, but I refrain from commenting on them in other peoples portfolios. There is a forum here for critique. If someone wants a critique, they will post it there. Jan 07 07 11:23 am Link So long as your comments are constructive then I say bring it on, I don't have to agree with you and I won't take it personally, I might just learn something new. Jan 07 07 11:50 am Link I don't know, I am pretty much an open book so people can say whatever they want and it doesn't bother me. That isn't universal. My advice is to not say anything unless criticism is asked for. Remember advice is to remember the old adage: No good deed goes unpunished! If you see an old woman burning on the streets, by all means put her out. If you see a portfolio you don't like, make friends with someone else. Jan 07 07 11:59 am Link I personally have always learned more in every part of life by listening to what people do not like. I stay positive in most of my comments because that is what the person is seeking. I would not mind at all if I had negative comments. Critique should mean just that. Tell me what is wrong. But if you are on the main page asking to trade comments, well then you just want some affirmation, not a critique. Jan 07 07 12:04 pm Link Jim Ball wrote: Jim, why do you think that 'Too many people believe that critique=criticism, and the only criticism is negative criticism"? Jan 07 07 12:08 pm Link It would be hugely appreciate - there are only so many "great shots" or "you're hot" quotes you can handle, even though they are appreciated - I wold rather hear "your head is tilted too much here" it would have been better if ???? Jan 07 07 12:12 pm Link It's supposed to be site for the modeling industry, it's not supposed to be myspace. Blowing smoke up people's asses does them no good. Be truthful. Jan 07 07 12:15 pm Link I am God reicarnate. If you have any other comments, critiques or concerns about anyones port, then just stop by and ask me about it first so that I may instruct you as to how to proceed. It will save you alot of headaches!  On a side note: The word "unsolicited" means UNCOLICITED. Do you like salesmen calling you at home in the evening? Just a thought. To the person below me.... Yes you are correct but a comment and an all out critique are two different things. Jan 07 07 12:21 pm Link Carpe Imago Photography wrote: I thought about this post a little bit more. There is a solicited format on MM. It is called "Comments." Jan 07 07 12:21 pm Link I think Tx. said it best. Unless someone asks you for your opinion then keep it to yourself. If you really feel the need to be negative or see a problem with a image then PM the person. Jan 07 07 12:24 pm Link Michael Kirst wrote: Except this is not your home. This is more akin to a gallery or a magazine. A place where you are putting your work out into the public eye. Jan 07 07 12:25 pm Link TXPhotog wrote: Agree with this totally. Jan 07 07 12:29 pm Link Alan from Aavian Prod wrote: That's how I feel about it. I don't want false...portfolio confidence...because people won't comment on the actual image. I want people to tell me whether it's a strong image or not, not just whether we're friends and they want to make me feel good (that's also welcome, hey...I'm a little vain). Jan 07 07 12:33 pm Link Carpe Imago Photography wrote: Art is in the Eye of the beholder, if one can't understand that there is those individuals that might view your stuff as being (Tasteful, Artistic, Porn or just something is a little off) then are you really in this for art or personal satisfaction. Codos to your willingness to respond with both positive and negative feed back. My port is always open to both Pos & Neg feedbacks. Do I really think that all the comments of that is awesome, great shot, love the contrast is the actual truth? Hell NO But it's what they think I want to hear. One can't get better with constant praising and I have found my self trying out what other have negatively commented. Some times it makes a big difference and other times it's just another shot. The biggest thing that I have found about commenting is not to give criticism that would remove the artistic value away from the artist. Jan 07 07 12:43 pm Link People today need to learn how to both give and take feedback. It's another thing entirely to be malicious. My belief upon joining this site was that it's here as a building block for people looking to build a network and improve their skills. On the other hand, should a less-than-pro photog be publicly critiquing photos? Jan 07 07 12:47 pm Link Aaron S wrote: For me personally, when I want a critique I use the critique forum. That's what it's there for. (And I do actually use it on a regular basis.) Otherwise, I'm more interested in feelings/responses/reactions to images beyond the small details. But that's just me. *shrug* I don't think I've ever deleted a comment, even the nasty ones, so it's not that I can't take it. I just don't believe that by putting a portfolio on MM people should be automatically considered fair game. Jan 07 07 12:47 pm Link Carpe Imago Photography wrote: I think it can go different ways. If you post your work on a site that enable comments on them, you are willingly submitting to critiques whether you want them or not. however, i personally dont like it much when people who clearly arent better than me offer critiques, unless they are making a valid point/i agree with it. I however love it when people better than me give me advice, thats one of the reasons i join sites like these. but i usually dont say anything to the person if they say soemthing that upsets me. fighting online is retarded. Jan 07 07 12:53 pm Link Carpe Imago Photography wrote: That's good that you try to balance it out with something positive. Also, I may be in the minority on this, but I think that when you want to leave a photographer a photo comment such as, for example, "The model is very boring in this shot" (which would be rude if you worded it that way), you should do that in a PM and not leave it as a photo comment for all of MM to see. The model does not need to visit her photographer's page to find that comment about her posted for all the MMers to see. "I think this shot would be better if you..." would be a better way of saying it. I just think that if your photo comment is going to be pointing out all the mistakes of the model/photographer and you have nothing positive to add to your comment, that should be done in a PM. Jan 07 07 12:56 pm Link This has proven to be an interesting thread. And I've formed some decidedly more pointed opinions based upon what I've read. So thanks to all who contributed...whatever your opinion is. Tony Lawrence wrote: I completely agree with the PM statement, although I think that constructive comments can be left within the portfolio as well. People are notified when they are made, and each of us can delete those that we don't like. But personally, I'm more comfortable leaving private feedback to others so that they understand that embarrassing them is not my motive. Alan from Aavian Prod wrote: Isn't that the truth?! I can't wait to see the comments that I get in my portfolio after starting this. Just for the record, I know that I'm a hack who has a long way to travel on the learning curve, have at it! Jan 07 07 01:00 pm Link Jim Ball wrote: I agree with this entire statement, and yeah, the Critique forum is there for a reason. Also, in that thread 00siris started the other day (about how beautiful a model is), I saw people making negative comments about a model who didn't even ask to have a thread about her in the first place (I remember something like that happening on here once or twice before). That was so not cool, and I'm sure that when she finds those posts she won't think it's cool either. Jan 07 07 01:09 pm Link Not all critique, however well intentioned, is useful. I get mail all the time from some sophmore art student saying I did something wrong because it didn't fit what they learned in class. They'll actually include that as part of their argument "And I should know, because I got an A on that test!". I think the questioning approach is best. If you ask why did you do it in such and such a way, and not such and such, maybe they have a reason and YOU will learn something. Maybe they don't, and they'll be more open to thinking about it because it was non-confrontational. Works either way. Jan 07 07 01:51 pm Link All is fair in love, war and the internet. If only solicited critiques were acceptable, then it wouldn't be an open forum. Of course an unsolicited negative critique could, as you said, result in an unsolicited "who the f*ck do you think you are?" as well. It's just the price of admission. Jan 07 07 01:57 pm Link Jim Ball wrote: Mark Reese Photography wrote: Because of the many posts of that nature I have read in the critique forum in the past. It is apparently a view shared by the MM owner & Mods as they recently ruled that only constructive criticism is allowed. It may be negative, but it must also include helpful elements. No more "you suck!" comments... https://www.modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=85512 dated 11/02/2006 Jan 07 07 02:07 pm Link I am very critical of my own images myself. And would appreciate someone to tell me the truth. I see lots of people leave positive comments on images that in my oppinion are just unprofessional or bad taste. I know I have some bad images of me in my port right now. I am just working on getting better ones, so I can delete them. But I don't leave bad comments for all the reasons you mensioned. Lesya. Jan 15 07 08:58 pm Link I always appreciate when someone who's work that admire will leave me a private message with praise or critique. I also enjoy the critique forum when I'm trying a new technique. I do not appreciate or want to see unsolicited critiques left as image comments or tags. When they do show up, I simply delete them and move on. I recently had an image comment explaining the correct way to light an image so that the items in the foreground would have taken center attention. Although the person was right in their explanation, he missed the point that I was trying to focus on the background and used lighting instead of DOF to make the point. It was much easier to simply delete the comment then to write another comment on my own photo to explain myself knowing that the original photographer would probably never be back to see my response. Jan 15 07 09:25 pm Link I've had two photographers call themselves critiquing my work and look, then I looked at their ports and cracked up laughing. You have to shake it off. Jan 15 07 09:50 pm Link I'll take criticism or praise from anyone, provided they're articulate, polite and relevant. I may not agree, of course, but I'll never blow a gasket, as they say. I invite it. Jan 15 07 09:56 pm Link TXPhotog wrote: Ditto Jan 15 07 10:07 pm Link 1. Praise publicly. Comments, tags, etc. are appropriate venues for well-deserved kudos. 2. Critique privately. Private message or only when requested on the Critique forum. Jan 15 07 11:02 pm Link |
