|
Forums >
General Industry >
Ok - Here is the topic - NO SHOWS!
As a photographer: What do you do about no-shows? How do you avoid them? Why do we think they happen? Is there a higher rate of them depending on the context of the shoot? Etc As a llama: Are you guilty of this? Why did you no-show? What would make you no-show? Is money a factor? Etc This is a topic that in my mind should be discussed because it costs me money... but I would love to hear all opinions... May 05 05 12:29 pm Link As a photographer too, I have had a total of 3 no-shows in the past 20 years... despite literally thousands of llamas shot (I shoot with about 30 llamas per month, currently). One of the 3 turned out to be in the hospital (bad auto accident). Another did show up but couldn't find us at the location (we realized later we did see her go by a few times). The third, there was no excuse. Booking llamas "online" is dangerous, particularly relying on the omp syndrom. Booking, of course, off the larger industry llama and talent listing sites tends to be more reliable than the standard OMP's, Net-Model's, etc. One way to reduce disappointment is to hold open calls or open (aka, group) shoots. Those that show up demonstrate a certain degree of reliability and interest. Auditions and/or sample (test) shooting at that time can give you a feel for the llama, and you can then book something more focused for another date. This tends to weed out the no-show issue, for the most part. The above primarily is applicable in TFP and test shoot situations. For shoots where your money's on the line, book a professional llama. Okay, yes you pay more... but perhaps in the long run you pay less? May 05 05 12:52 pm Link The way I look at it is I get a day off and much needed rest when I get a no-show. However it does suck for my scheduling, another llama has lost a slot because one person decided to be selfish and not give me enough notice to reschedule. There isn't alot I do about it, but thankfully it's not a huge issue with me at this point, only happens once every four months or so. May 05 05 12:54 pm Link Oh I can relate - but if you hire a MUA and are on location that can really be a bummer.. Posted by Jeff Bowlin: May 05 05 12:56 pm Link I haven't done this and I really can't fathom why people do. Excepting circumstances such as those already mentioned - injury, inability to locate the shoot or contact the photographer for help, etc. - there's just no reason that makes sense. And yet every single photographer I've worked with has mentioned it as being a common phenomenon. I can only suppose that the llamas that do this either don't care about their reputation, or are confident that they are in enough demand that future photographers will be willing to risk unreliability. Shyly May 05 05 01:34 pm Link Photographers no-show, too, you know. I've never had it happen yet, but I have had a lot of photogoraphers vanish just as we get to setting a date. I've also had dates set and when I called the night before to confirm, the photographers told me they couldn't do it after all. I very seriously doubt those guys would have bohered to tell me the shoot was off had I not tried to confirm. My suggestion for avoiding them (assuming you don't do this already) is to be sure you have a phone number for the llama and call her the day before to confirm. You'll still have people flake, but it helps a bit. As a llama, I've no-showed once. It was 5 years ago and I tried to call several times, but couldn't get through. I was actually calling to tell him I was too busy barfing to shoot that day. I did send him an email later apologizing, but I never tried to shoot with him again. I've called in sick to shoots 3 other times, once embarassingly close to shoot time. Two of the shoots were paid, but the one I cancelled the day of was TFP with someone I'd worked with once before. I was able to reschedule the TFP and one of the paid shoots. The other photographer probably assumed I was just a flake, because he never responded to any of my emails asking to reschedule. May 05 05 01:56 pm Link Theda, that's absolutely true! A couple of months ago I called a photographer I was scheduled to shoot with to tell him that I was stuck in traffic and would probably be fifteen minutes late. His response? "Oh. Yeah. I can't make it. Found out last night, I guess I should have let you know." Um. Yeah. I reckon you should've! Sheesh. May 05 05 02:12 pm Link Oh I have cancelled shoots also - that is not the biggest question.. Maybe I shoudl have worded it a bit different.. If you are not sick, or dead etc.... why would a llama or photogrpaher flake.. Actually my biggest problem is not the showing up part.. It is the showing up a half hour to 2 hours late and not calling.... That boggles my mind as I woudl never do it - but many do.. May 05 05 02:23 pm Link In this age of cell phones, e-mail, and internet map services... I can't understand why a llama would not show up for a shoot if all the other things expected are there...like a photographer who has real references, acts business like when making contact with the llama, the llama shows interest in the shoot and ideas, the photographer has quality images displayed,...etc.. neverless, llamas still blow off shoots.. I had one the other day planned with a llama this last Sunday... that was suppose to have taken place the Sunday before..but some family thing came up and she did give me two days notice...ok..fine so I booked with her the following Sunday , and confirmed with her on the friday before the shoot, and she stated that she was going to be there. Great,... BTW, this is for a tear sheet in a magazine....no nudity.. Well, I bought 2 paper rolls just for this shoot,...props, and spent more than 3 hours setting up my lights, etc.. and have a MUA and an assistant show up anticipating a shoot, and at 10:am, the time she was suppose to be knocking on my door,... didn't happen... Fifteen minutes later of standing around and looking at each other, I plug my computer into the wire and check my e-mail messages.. (been up since 6am on a Sunday and didn't check my messages before)... and this is what I get from her: Hi, This is Jamie's friend Heather. She had to leave work early and is currently at my home throwing up. She gave me your info and asked if I could send you a message that this morning is not looking too good. She says that anytime this week, except Thursday is okay, just let her know and she will be there. Sincerely, Heather Smith I guess she is ok with giving out her e-mail password to her friends.. .....what ever... I don't believe it! Later that morning, I read that in Madison Wisconsin,...they were still cleaning up after a huge party that made national news! I wonder if her "throwing up" had anything to do with that..? Oh, just incase you were wondering...... If you are good with "numbers".. ;-) ;-) 169356 JP May 05 05 02:40 pm Link i have never been a no show nor have i had i photographer be a no show guess ive been pretty lucky.but id be pretty darn mad if this happened to me like u all said there is email phones and cell phones nowadays theres no call for it May 05 05 02:57 pm Link Posted by Brent Burzycki: I have never no show'd. I have had to cancel, although reschedule is a better word, close to a shoot beforehand once this last year because I was in the emergency room all night, but I let the photographer know as soon as I got home from the hospital that morning. I felt really bad for having to cancel the day of, but there was nothing I could do. May 05 05 03:20 pm Link I reduce NO SHOWS to making them leave a deposit, even for test shoots. If you fail to show up / show up on time, you forfeit the deposit. I learned the hard way having only 3 no shows in my short 2 year career was enough for me to lower the boom. Now that my response to NO SHOWS is simple. You'll never have the chance to shoot with me again. There are certain llamas in my area that know better than to call me ever again. I also tell a friend who tells a friend, who tells a friend about the llama that didn't show up. May 05 05 03:29 pm Link I recently had a llama no show. We do all of our shoots on location. For this shot we had travelled 2 hours (each way), had 2 fishing guides booked for the day, and had an assistant (who had taked a day off work) with us. I still have not heard from that llama and do not expect to. Any llama that no shows for a shoot or event with us is put into our "black file" and we never work with her again. Once I had a llama call right before a shoot and say she had decided to go shopping instead of shoot and actually wanted us to reschedule. We, of course, never shot her. BTW- all of our shoots and events are paid. May 05 05 03:33 pm Link I had a llama cancel three weeks before saying she had a wedding to go to. What woman doesn't know six months in advance that her friend is getting married. Most women know of the wedding plans BEFORE the guy proposes. She then calls the week of the shoot and says she DOESN'T have a wedding to go to. Can she have the job back?? My feelings, she was hoping for a better offer that never came through. I did a cancellation after waiting for a llama for over an hour. It was to be at her place. I was there early and called her, NO answer. I called at the time of the shoot and again no answer. I called 15 minutes later and was told she just got in could I wait 5 minutes? I called at 5 minutes, NO answer, at 15 minutes no answer and at 30 minutes, no answer. I left a message I was leaving and drove off, She called me five minutes later and was upset that I left after waiting 45 minutes do do a TFCD shoot. May 05 05 03:57 pm Link May 05 05 03:58 pm Link Posted by Michael Rothman: Me. They don't like to give me too much warning so I can't come up with an excuse not to go. May 05 05 04:14 pm Link I've had friends call me up the night before they got married to tell me to be at such and such park the next day for their wedding. Three weeks is very nice breathing room, how is that a no show? I always knew the definition of a "no show" as someone who did not show. The photographer or llama is left waiting there while the other party didn't bother to show up or notify you in advance. Has this definition now changed to include rescheduling? Even three weeks in advance? *confused* May 05 05 04:20 pm Link Posted by Brent Burzycki: There's nothing you can do about them. Live with it and just move on. How do you avoid them? I plan no longer that 3 weeks in advance. No less than 2 weeks in advance. lol Why do we think they happen? Think what happens? No shows? Sometimes they get the butterflies. Sometimes last minute things come up. Sometimes they get flat tires. I've heard it all. Is there a higher rate of them depending on the context of the shoot? I've noticed the out of town llamas I've shot with are more dependable than local. May 05 05 05:03 pm Link Like VM said, frequent phone calls/email the week before the shoot. I think the closest I've come to a no-show was this llama who did show up (pretty much on-time no less) but I later found out that she was scheduled to shoot with another photographer that I know at the same time (so she no-showed on the other photographer)! I think the reason I was the lucky one is that I called her several times that week to confirm and hammer out details. The other guy didn't contact her that week. Shouldn't have to be that way but you gotta do what ya gotta do. May 05 05 05:29 pm Link Posted by Myla Chenoa: It wasn't a no show but when she asked for the job back a few days before the shoot we assumed she cancelled to book something better that didn't come through. May 05 05 05:41 pm Link "hope this is not too short of a notice -- I would like to cancel the test shoot at this point because I don't see a profit for me. I think your idea is great but I came to realize that those photos won't be beneficial for me at this direction that I'm heading into. Beside working fulltime and have a few other opportunities to make some money I'd like to pass on this assignment. Thank you so much for your time. Hope I didn't cause too much problem" This was sent to me the day before the shoot, after a week and a half of correspondence. This was supposed to be a TFP shoot and granted there isn't any cash involved, but let's take into account the film, processing, touching up, prints, cd, all out of MY OWN expense. All the llama has to do is show up at a TFP and look pretty. How is it not a benefit when you're getting all these services for free? At the time, I was renting a studio daily and wasted my deposit on it because I couldn't come up with a llama to shoot quick enough. Seriously, if you have doubts about the project, just say no instead of jerking us around. By the way... 33448 May 05 05 07:57 pm Link [b]Posted By Austin llamas May 05 05 08:24 pm Link Posted by infinite lux co: Quality over quantity. Not every picture is going to be of use to a llama. No she shouldn't have booked and then backed out. I've booked a couple of shoots and then decided I didn't much want to, but I went through with them because I cool like dat. And I did more than just "show up and look pretty." You guys must not be working with very good llamas. May 06 05 12:59 am Link I dont think there is ANY excuse for being a no-show besides getting in a car accident or something along those lines. Regardless of why someone decides they cant do a shoot..they remembered they had something else going on...dont feel well...their aunt died..heard something they didnt like about the person they were going to shoot with...got lost...hungover..whatever..ALL IT TAKES IS A SIMPLE PHONE CALL to say "hey i cant make it, sorry". Im not saying that just because they call it would justify it, but THE WORST is the situations where a model doesnt even bother a phone call... May 06 05 01:11 am Link I agree with all of you and for the life of me cannot figure out why it is that it becomes so hard for a llama or photographer to just pick up the phone and make a simple, short phone call. Simple as that! What is sooo dam! hard about dialing a phone number!? May 06 05 02:32 am Link Posted by EricMuss-Barnes: You're correct about the quotes and it's more applicable how you have indicated. I too have worked with some great llamas who are "online." Being online is not the issue at all. You're online, I'm online... That is not wherein the problem is and I hope one day all llamas are online. Actually, many llamaS are online, but just not on the OMP's. Defining the word "model" is probably more the issue. A "model" in the traditional sense isn't really just anyone who stands infront of a camera. Certainly with all the posts on even just this forum about "no shows" and "sleeping with the llamas," a commercial client isn't going to go Internet llama site for hiring talent any time soon - since commercial ad's have a lot of money at stake and can't be bothered with no-shows, llamas and photographers having sex, drinking alcohol before, during, etc. Assigning the term "model" to someone, therefore, should have more to do with the way they handle themselves professionally instead of whether or not they've done a few TFP's and have a web listing at iamamodel.com. May 06 05 09:11 am Link If a model is a no call no show, she (or he) doesn't deserve to work as a model ever again and should spend the rest of her life working at the hot dog hut wearing a mustard yellow jumpsuit. MT May 07 05 01:02 pm Link As a model I always show up to every shoot prepared and ready. If I talk to a photographer and we agree on the looks, times, and compensation - I will be there. Only once did I cease the communication between a photographer and myself - I was asked to model for a Rap CD cover in a shoot two days from the date he contacted me, then asked to be the stylist, then asked to PICK OUT five girls out of THIRTYFIVE to dress and do makeup for on top of taking care of my own styling, then asked to go buy the entire wardrobe for the shoot (all happening within two days) - all without a solid $ amount. Er, no. As a designer though I have had to deal with multiple no shows, the worst one was during my fashion show. What I don't understand is that the model came by for a fitting, was assigned two outfits, and communicated with me the day before the show, and then didn't show up. Because she is a friend of friend I know nothing bad happened to her, but I never received an aology, or even just an explaination. Yaya www.angelicstar.net May 07 05 01:27 pm Link easy solution that i've found: 1) have the model meet me at MY place for an initial meeting to (i refuse to meet anyone at starbucks any longer due to no-shows. if she's not comfortable with meeting me at my place, then she can call me from outside of my place and we can go for coffee then) i also take that time to shoot a few nude snapshots to see what she really looks like. we all know the power of retouching.  2) this is a simple 'homework' assignment to see if the model can show up. it's only limitation is that it doesn't usually work with models who are visiting and have a limited time frame to meet/shoot. May 07 05 02:34 pm Link I recently had a photographer no-show. I waited for an hour for him, giving him the benefit of the doubt. And still, two, three days later, no e-mail from him apologizing for it. FINALLY something came across on the fourth day or so. He really had no excuse for it, either, but he did say he was sorry. I really still want to work with him, but am so nervous about trying to re-schedule. Will he do it again? I have never, ever no-showed. There have been massive miscommunications between myself and photog, but I am always on-time (if not early) and very professional about keeping dates. If I know I can't or don't want to make it, I try to let them know at least a week in advance. Becky May 07 05 02:44 pm Link I've never been a no-show - I could never do that to someone - however I did have a photogapher not show up for a shoot once. I drove 3 hours to get to the studio, paid for parking, waited for an hour and he never showed. Then I e-mail him and asked very politely if he had forgotten me and and requested that he write back to let me know that he was ok. That was three weeks ago and still no response. I'm beginning to think he's dead... May 08 05 09:59 pm Link Do you like calling your boss when you are sick... as an example... Posted by Doug Harvey: May 08 05 10:42 pm Link He better be..... Posted by SarahJean: May 08 05 10:44 pm Link Guess it would be better than getting fired because I didn't "feel" like it...Give me break! and find a better example! Posted by Brent Burzycki: Posted by Doug Harvey: May 08 05 11:02 pm Link Posted by johnny olsen: I schedule an interview at my studio. If she doesn't show, I scratch her off my list, even if it's a paid gig, unless it's a very good reason. I touch base often the time between the interview and the shoot, and she has my cell number, etc., and I have hers. I haven't resorted to taking a deposit, except in the case of weddings, but if the client shows up for the interview I've had 100% show up for their shoots. May 08 05 11:07 pm Link I've no-showed once (see topic: Art show -- tfp or pay?), which was yesterday. I had met the photographer once upon doing a photoshoot for an independent clothing company. We had correspondence for about a week and a half tossing around ideas, but she never answered my simple inquiry about compensation. Nor did she give me directions to her studio. A week before the shoot, she neglected to contact me with directions or compensation, even after I had phoned and emailed her. I planned on showing up for the shoot regardless if I knew the compensation (I do not want a bad rep), but could not because I had no directions. I tried calling that morning, but got her answering machine. She hasn't contacted me about it yet... I think she either forgot about it (odd) or just doesn't care. I've had a no-show photographer twice for TFP. It was with the same guy. Once was because his wife came home late the night before and he got no sleep, therefore he thought it was proper to call me fifteen minutes before the scheduled shoot time to say he wasn't going to show. I was rather irritated because I had driven an hour and a half to location. He wanted to reschedule... and naively I agreed. The second time he didn't show up -- no phone call, email, or even a simple text message. Before OR after the shoot. Needless to say I will never (try to) work with him again. May 08 05 11:14 pm Link Posted by Mandy: If a photographer (or model) can't answer a simple, direct question, that's a red flag for sure! May 08 05 11:27 pm Link Posted by Mandy: Um, sweetheart, you did NOT no-show if the photographer didn't give you directions! The photographer was the flake, not you! May 08 05 11:42 pm Link Moderators: Is there any way the 16,534 threads on this topic can be merged into one giant super thread? Nov 03 06 05:45 pm Link Moderators: Is there any way the 16,534 threads on this topic can be merged into one giant super thread? Nov 03 06 05:45 pm Link |
