Donny R wrote:
If your a model, ur getting paid. How do the photographers get paid for what they do. Relating to only modeling, no other type of photography!
If I could get some answers that'd be cool!

Hardly. Many models here arent getting paid just like photographers. MM is TFP land, very few paid jobs come out of it. You will find more models willing to pay on Myspace.

MrE Creations wrote:

Hardly. Many models here arent getting paid just like photographers. MM is TFP land, very few paid jobs come out of it. You will find more models willing to pay on Myspace.

lol so far it's like 50 50 for me some want TFP others want paid work

blackmirror wrote:
MM Market is 8 forums down. You are in the wrong forum. *jeesh, newbies*

General industry discussion. No spam
that answers that, not selling just inquiring

Donny R wrote:
If your a model, ur getting paid. How do the photographers get paid for what they do. Relating to only modeling, no other type of photography!
If I could get some answers that'd be cool!

bang bang photo wrote:
There are a small number of photographers on MM who have the talent and industry connections to demand that models pay them for portfolio work.

There are a small number of photographers on MM who produce artistic work using MM models, and publish this work or sell it in galleries.

There are a small number of photographers on MM who shoot glamour and erotica, and sell it to magazines and websites.

There are a small number of photographers on MM who work in the editorial, fashion, and advertising worlds.

I've probably missed a few things, but that's about it. It's really no different from any other entertainment or creative profession. For every James Taylor who can fill an arena whenever he wants, there's 100,000 struggling club musicians who are lucky if a night's work covers their gas money and guitar strings.

Photography has always been a VERY hard place to make money, and it's not getting any easier. Unfortunately, valuable as MM is, I would not characterize it as particularly helpful to increasing a photographers income, at least in any direct way.

A tits right on answer.
On MM... I will not pay a model to test and, I in turn do not expect them to pay me...
I make my money in the real world; this is just for fun.

bang bang photo wrote:
There are a small number of photographers on MM who have the talent and industry connections to demand that models pay them for portfolio work.

There are a small number of photographers on MM who produce artistic work using MM models, and publish this work or sell it in galleries.

There are a small number of photographers on MM who shoot glamour and erotica, and sell it to magazines and websites.

There are a small number of photographers on MM who work in the editorial, fashion, and advertising worlds.

I've probably missed a few things, but that's about it. It's really no different from any other entertainment or creative profession. For every James Taylor who can fill an arena whenever he wants, there's 100,000 struggling club musicians who are lucky if a night's work covers their gas money and guitar strings.

Photography has always been a VERY hard place to make money, and it's not getting any easier. Unfortunately, valuable as MM is, I would not characterize it as particularly helpful to increasing a photographers income, at least in any direct way.

Excellent reply!  A smart and attractive model could make some decent pocket
cash off of MM but its still a hustle.  Recently I heard from a model charging
$100.00 per hour which is beyond my budget but not something other photographers won't pay and do.  This was a pretty girl with a nice figure.  Its
a hustle though and what happens when someone doesn't pay.

Shyly wrote:
Not many photographers make a whole lot of money off MM models.  There are a few who do, and if you hang around the forums some it'll be clear who they are.  But generally speaking if you want to be charging models for portfolio work on a regular basis, you'd do best to develop a relationship with an agency.  MM just isn't a place you can count on for that.

Hey, I'm getting TRUFFLES from Renee.  Far as I'm concerned, that's as good as $.

T H Taylor wrote:
A tits right on answer.
On MM... I will not pay a model to test and, I in turn do not expect them to pay me...
I make my money in the real world; this is just for fun.

Yep!
I get paid for boring commercial phots of wine & liquor bottles, this's my "for fun & art" place.

Donny R wrote:
If your a llama, ur getting paid. How do the photographers get paid for what they do. Relating to only llamaing, no other type of photography!
If I could get some answers that'd be cool!

I don't think this site is geared to that. It is more of a resource for potential llamas who wanna get their feet wet.  .02

Donny R wrote:
If your a model, ur getting paid. How do the photographers get paid for what they do. Relating to only modeling, no other type of photography!
If I could get some answers that'd be cool!

be good at what you do.???

SLE Photography wrote:

Yep!
I get paid for boring commercial phots of wine & liquor bottles, this's my "for fun & art" place.

Yup -- I make most of my money shooting politicians (that always sounds SO bad!). I make a little money shooting musicians.

The interesting thing is -- I've shot a few parties and weddings for MM models I've done TFPs with previously. That pays WAY better than shooting them as models!

Paul

Pat Thielen wrote:
Holy crap! We're supposed to be making money on Model Mayhem? Why wasn't I informed?

  I'm always the last to know...

Yeah Pat, we're all getting filthy stinking rich on here...get with the program!!!  (OK, maybe not...lol!)

Donny R wrote:
How are photographers supposed to make money on MM

Hurts... s-so... b-b-bad... muh... make it... it... make it... stop... C-can't... suh... suh... s-stopp... l-laff... inng...



This can all be summed up by an obnoxious food analogy...



Say you have a fine dining establishment next door to a diner that gives away shitty, free food 24 hours a day.  Naturally, tons of people will say "Oh, gawd!!  It's free?!?!  Fill my plate!!!" 

And they'll commence to stuffing themselves senseless and subsequently fall into bad health.  A few will see the error of their ways and change their diet; the rest will just suffer through clogged arteries and painful bowel movements because they think that getting free food is worth it.

On the other hand, you'll have a more discerning patron who loves good food, good wine, good service and good times and doesn't want be stuck in long lines only to watch a bunch of gluttons gorging themselves with free slop.  They pay for the fine dining and would never go to the free diner.  And because they frequent the fine establishment, tip well and behave themselves, the staff may give them free drinks or a free meal because they bring around more people like them. 

But fine dining isn't cheap.  The person who pays for it understands that value of it.  They know exactly what they're paying for.  In the end, they feel like paying for good times, good food, good wine and good service is cheaper in the end than wasting time in line for free slop and shelling out the extra dollars on laxatives, extra toilet tissue, lysol and doctors bills.  Not to mention the cost in social standing of excessive flatulence.



ModelMayhem, is like that 24 hour diner, pal.  The land of free slop and greedy shmoes just waiting to eat it all up.  There are a few chefs here who slum it with the rest of us, but they don't eat the crap nor do they cook it up.  They're more or less here to see if there are a few of us with sense enough to change our diets.  That's when they invite us next door for good food, good wine, etc...

Jay Bowman wrote:

Hurts... s-so... b-b-bad... muh... make it... it... make it... stop... C-can't... suh... suh... s-stopp... l-laff... inng...



This can all be summed up by an obnoxious food analogy...



Say you have a fine dining establishment next door to a diner that gives away shitty, free food 24 hours a day.  Naturally, tons of people will say "Oh, gawd!!  It's free?!?!  Fill my plate!!!" 

And they'll commence to stuffing themselves senseless and subsequently fall into bad health.  A few will see the error of their ways and change their diet; the rest will just suffer through clogged arteries and painful bowel movements because they think that getting free food is worth it.

On the other hand, you'll have a more discerning patron who loves good food, good wine, good service and good times and doesn't want be stuck in long lines only to watch a bunch of gluttons gorging themselves with free slop.  They pay for the fine dining and would never go to the free diner.  And because they frequent the fine establishment, tip well and behave themselves, the staff may give them free drinks or a free meal because they bring around more people like them. 

But fine dining isn't cheap.  The person who pays for it understands that value of it.  They know exactly what they're paying for.  In the end, they feel like paying for good times, good food, good wine and good service is cheaper in the end than wasting time in line for free slop and shelling out the extra dollars on laxatives, extra toilet tissue, lysol and doctors bills.  Not to mention the cost in social standing of excessive flatulence.



ModelMayhem, is like that 24 hour diner, pal.  The land of free slop and greedy shmoes just waiting to eat it all up.  There are a few chefs here who slum it with the rest of us, but they don't eat the crap nor do they cook it up.  They're more or less here to see if there are a few of us with sense enough to change our diets.  That's when they invite us next door for good food, good wine, etc...

Best. Analogy. Ever.

  Now, how do I get in to the good restaurant? Do I need reservations?

 

Pat Thielen wrote:
Best. Analogy. Ever.

  Now, how do I get in to the good restaurant? Do I need reservations?

 

Sadly, I have no idea.



I tried to get in once, even smelled the fantastic aroma of the food but I was roughly escorted out by the security and told never to return.  I suppose they just didn't like my zodiac sign because they made some sort of reference to stars or maybe the sun as I left.  Something about the patrons not being keen on my "gaseous body floating around in their space." 

I never knew being a libra was so disgusting...

Donny R wrote:
If your a model, ur getting paid. How do the photographers get paid for what they do. Relating to only modeling, no other type of photography!
If I could get some answers that'd be cool!

Opportunities are everywhere around us. If you want them, you have to open your eyes and mind to see them, then you have to be clever enough to figure out how to apply them in a way that keeps you above zero, on average. You have to be original in your thinking. Most people tend to try harder to copy each other, so every idea in that group has already been beat to death. You have to develop your own clever and new ideas from the inside out. Nobody else can do this for you.

How are photographers supposed to make money on MM?

If you want a hint, here's one answer to your question: MM is a huge and active group of people, mostly amateur models and photographers. They are mostly spread all over the USA, but there is also a Canadian and other International contingents. Any time you have a huge active group of people, you have a market that's specialized for that group. Generally speaking, people tend to spend all of money they have on something, by the end of each month. This condition is not likely to change soon, because it's human behavior in this day in age. Some also spend credit card money they don't have, beyond the money they have.

All you have to do, is figure out what all these MM people spend their discretionary money on, and offer them good and irresistable reasons why they should be sending it to you.

Now, what might these products or services be?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

Start a storeyboard. Throw lots of ideas on the wall to start the brainstorming. Start by defining your market, then distill these ideas backwards into a product. Then test your product ideas. Develop your line and then sell and collect your money. If you are still going in a positive direction, increase the turnover and margin. If not, go back to Square One.


Sage advice from
The Legendary Click Hamilton

TH Taylor your work is great!  Looks like you are having lots of fun.  Eric

Jay Bowman wrote:
Hurts... s-so... b-b-bad... muh... make it... it... make it... stop... C-can't... suh... suh... s-stopp... l-laff... inng...



This can all be summed up by an obnoxious food analogy... (edited)

That's worthy of a overstuffed hoity toity doggie bag.

bt

SLE Photography wrote:

Hey, I'm getting TRUFFLES from Renee.  Far as I'm concerned, that's as good as $.

LOLOL. dayum, how did I miss this?

lotusphoto wrote:
people just send you money, it's great, every day i get 4 emails,

'please send me your address so i can send you $200'

it's cool, welcome abord

haha, u always got the most off the wall funny stuff, I love it

Donny R wrote:
If your a model, ur getting paid. How do the photographers get paid for what they do. Relating to only modeling, no other type of photography!
If I could get some answers that'd be cool!

Market yourself...Market yourself...Market yourself!

If this is going to be your business or is your business then your going to have to have a portfolio that will appeal to someone looking to make an investment to their portfolio.

Also actors would be great to market yourself to as well...(models not so much just because you really have to be outstanding or because they do modeling for a living and want to be paid.) Actors always need updated headshots I was a wardrobe stylist for a shoot and my client paid almost $1,000 dollars for some color headshots and full length photos... And that was one of the lower packages...

So I would suggest you look at your market see how much other photographers are charging... price your packages competively and start getting the word out about your photography through networking and establishing yourself in the market you want to narrow in on.

*sandra

lotusphoto wrote:
people just send you money, it's great, every day i get 4 emails,

'please send me your address so i can send you $200'

it's cool, welcome abord

lmao I tried that... never got anything back ... oh boi!

Click Hamilton wrote:
Sage advice from
The Legendary Click Hamilton

In sum you seem to be saying the same, and a position I agree with, as a Business/Marketing 101 course.

A good place to start:

http://www.designchef.com/tips/niche-marketing.htm

Niche Marketing: A Mini Tutorial on Starting a Business

------

The advice in the above article is classic: "Find a market; then fill it."

[in part]
"...Many people make the mistake of developing a product first, then trying to find a market. That is backwards. You must first find the demand, and then fill it. This will guarantee the success of your product, as people are already looking for what you are about to develop. By filling this need, you can actively focus your energies on marketing to the audiences that will provide the highest sales profit...."

------

In this business of photography, shooting TFwhatever is NOT a "market" or is there generally any paying market for the resulting "product"

I have also pointed up before that photographers should NOT pay models unless they have a paying client, or a paying market, themselves. You can have a 1000, 10,000 or a million bucks worth of "inventory" [images which you paid models to shoot - OR - your costs even for TFwhatevers] but if there are no paying client[s] or no paying market[s] for those images then it is the same as so much scrap.

Studio36

FKVPhotoGraphics wrote:
If we were supposed to make money on MM.....the site would be MMoMM!

Luckily I don't depend on making money shooting fashion or I'd be broke and starving on MM.......BSOMM!

Actually, Frank, MM is NOT a market at all for photographers though it may be for models. For the photographers it more in the character of a supplier in the scheme of things. The photographer's actual market, as opposed to the model's, is external to MM.

Studio36

Bruce Talbot wrote:
That's worthy of a overstuffed hoity toity doggie bag.

bt

You mean I get Bruce frickin Talbot's leftovers?





Hell yeah...