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Should I quit?
To begin with, let me explain a little a about who I am. I am a full time teacher with a passion for photography. My photography has however always been a fear in my life though. For those of you who donât know I shoot a lot of artistic nude photography. I have never asked a student to model and I have kept my photography separate from my teaching career. What brings me to write this blog today is an incident that happened just an hour ago. There is a coffee house that I like to visit. Years ago with a previous owner I would bring my photography there and work on it, editing, organizing portfolios or just asking for feedback on the images. The previous owners asked me to not bring my photography into the coffee house because some people found it offensive. There was also one incident where a customer approached me and told me it wasnât cool of me to ask people from the coffee house to consider modeling. I complied. The coffee house was bought by a new couple about six months ago. Since their ownership I have only visited the coffee house about a dozen times. In those times, I have had meet models there and shown my portfolio books to those models. I have even shown the owners my work. The owners then encouraged me to consider finding pieces that could be displayed in the coffee house. On this night, I had some of my photos printed and the model and I went to this coffee house to hang out and put her prints in a portfolio book. I showed another customer, who I have talked to on many occasions my book and then showed a slide show presentation on my laptop to the model of some of my old black and white art nude work. About 30 minutes after I had put my books and my laptop away, a woman approached me, saying âexcuse meâ. I thought the woman, wanted myself and the model to make room for her to get to the video game behind us. The woman then sat in a chair behind me and then leaned over to our table to listen to what we were talking about. I thought the woman was just odd and being nosey. The woman after sitting there for more than five minutes then began talking to me about my photography. Asking me if it was a business, how old my models are, have I sold any images. I found her tone confrontational, but I answered her questions respectfully. She then introduced herself as the sister of the owner and told me that (please note I am paraphrasing) it wasnât appropriate for me to bring the photography into the coffee house. She repeated this statement several times after I told her clearly âI will not bring the photos back into the coffee house.â The three other people at my table all agreed that what just happened was very weird. The owner appeared from the upstairs about 10 minutes after the incident with the sister. I called the owner over to clear up this situation. Now, I honestly was expecting her to tell me not to bring the photos in again, but what actually happened has disturbed me. The owner told me that customers have complained about my photography and that they find it offensive. I was about to tell her that I wouldnât bring the images in again when she continued in a very hostile and confrontational tone that employees have said I am âpropositioningâ customers to model. Now I havenât asked a customer to consider modeling in over two years, and definitely not since they have owned the coffee house. She then asked me to take my stuff and leave. All of this wouldnât have disturbed me so much as her last statement âAs a teacher, you shouldnât be doing both of thoseâ. It has always been a fear of mine that someone at my school would learn of my photography. But all of my models have been 18 or older, out of high school, and never a student or someone who knows a student from where I teach. What scares me is that this woman was so angry with me and probably feeling so empowered by kicking me out of her establishment, that she might contact my school and let them know about my photography. I am also disturbed that people at the coffee house are bringing up things that happened years ago as if I am doing it that day. I also want to not that the video games in that establishment have strip poker and nude photography games. There is also a painting of a nude woman on the wall. So I ask you, Is it time for me to get out of photographing models and art nudes? Dec 23 06 12:24 am Link No. Family seems to have a large impact on business, even when they're just being annoying and nosey (believe me, I know). Schedule a meeting with the owner. Tell him what you think, and figure out a solution. If that doesn't work, find another coffee shop. Dec 23 06 12:25 am Link Find another coffee house... ? Not sure what they could legally do to you if all your models are 18+... At many Highschools there are photography classes...I am SURE the teacher teaching it is a photographer...obviously and probably have taken artistic nude photographs in his or her time... so not sure what the problem would be... *Sandra Dec 23 06 12:35 am Link You can't show them that this disturbes you. If you are ok with what you are doing and sure that it is the right thing than that is all that matters. No matter what you do in life, you will never please everyone, so question is...will you be a people pleaser or try to please yourself. Just make sure that nothing you do is ilegal, and I will go on a limb here...go talk to your school principal about it. Nothing wrong with beeing an artist, you know. Act like an confident artist and they will see you as one. Act scared; and before you know it they will label you as a perv. Dec 23 06 12:37 am Link Hell no. I have been lucky enough to not have a job where the powers that be would threaten my job over what I do and who have even seen my website. I definitely feel for you because it sounds like both teaching and photography are passions for you. If you doing nude photography is threatening to your job, what about the art teacher who most likely has or does the same thing either with a camera or paint brush or pencil?I wonder why art teachers never feel threatened... Find another cafe to meet people in. I am VERY fortunate to be personal friends with the manager of a cafe in town which is part of a small but international chain. I also somewhat know the owner of the chain and I have had my work on their walls 3 times, including nudes. Dec 23 06 12:43 am Link Bruce Millich wrote: Yup yup yup. Dec 23 06 12:44 am Link Man: "Doctor, it hurts when I do that." Doctor: "Don't do that." Dec 23 06 12:44 am Link You have heard the expression "won't play in Peoria"...right? Perhaps, you should find a more liberal coffee house to meet your models. If I were you I would talk to Lapis MM#3290 and find a better place to use. Illinois may not be the most artist freindly state but give me a break it can all be that uptight. Dec 23 06 12:45 am Link you say you're afraid of your school finding out, but you're waving the the stuff around in public at the VERY SAME coffee house where you ALREADY HAD A PROBLEM before.. No sympathy for you at all....sorry. Dec 23 06 12:46 am Link Oh and make sure your name isn't googleable ...students or employers sometimes google there names to see what they can find... I heard about some employers googling applicants myspaces to get a feel for who they really are... and find some not so good things... Also at my old highschool a bunch of football players got in trouble for having drinking pictures on there myspace...(they had signed an agreement about not drinking alcohol) Alot go suspended. Now I am not sure if you would get suspended for having artistic nudes on a modeling /photography site but might as well cover your tracks  Or be upfront and go to the principle and ask if it is a problem. *Sandra Dec 23 06 12:47 am Link When confronted by the school administration simply repeat, "Wasn't me." and nothing more. Dec 23 06 12:48 am Link Note: I agree it was stupid of me to show my art nude work in public. Dec 23 06 12:49 am Link Don't quit photography, or shooting nudes. Just quit showing them around a public place. When I lived in Los Angeles, I wouldn't pull out a portfolio of nudes in a coffee shop on Sunset Blvd., where similar photos might be on billboards just outside, and I definitely wouldn't open up a notebook computer and show them. I'd guess Chicago would be more conservative than Los Angeles. Dec 23 06 12:54 am Link Don't quit your photography. These people just have something to prove, and they are wrong. As far as teaching...I started my modeling when I was in high school, for school. I, of course, didn't do nudes then, but they taught me more about the art of photography than anything else. I also believe that my photography/shop teacher(Small school), also did freelance work of an artistic nature. I'd work with you, and I'm not ashamed to show my work to anyone. You shouldn't be either...NickiB Dec 23 06 01:54 am Link The replies have given some good advice. Also, look into out of county/state galleries, cafes and such to show your work through.If you become a well known photographer and make good money at it you can tell the school boar to kiss your ass and leave them behind and focus on your artistic passion.. Dec 23 06 01:56 am Link Biggots and hypocrites... they're everywhere. Backing down to those who "falsely judge you" is one of the quick routes to giving up your freedoms, and potentially all of ours. It's amazing how many of these same people go to art museums and praise the nude art of past masters. Keep photographing art nudes. We need you! --Rocky Dec 23 06 02:04 am Link This happens all the time in the mid-west. I live in Cleveland, Ohio and I understand what happened to you more then anyone. I have to hid the fact I am a nude model from everyone. Heck, most people do not even approve of modeling.It is strange how close minded the mid west is. Seriously, it is not this way in Cali or NY. It seems almost expected in those areas. I remember at Glamourcon, in LA. I was showing off nudes I did on a lap top in the hotel bar. I had a circle around me. A number of people wanted to buy prints, of the nudes Renee Jacobs took of me. I know in Cleveland, I would have been kicked out. I would find a new coffee house. Most cities have a art friendly coffee house some where. We have a few here in Cleveland. I am proud to know, someone has artistic nudes hanging on there wall of me. It's that what this is all about? Dec 23 06 02:49 am Link Hell no! As long as your models are all of age, you have nothing to worry about. There are plenty of people who have two sources of income. Yours just happen to be teaching and photography. But you need to keep your stuff at home or meet your clients at a park. I, myself, wouldnt feel comfortable showing nude work in a coffee shop. Even if the owners had no problem. Dec 23 06 03:16 am Link DJ Watts wrote: Quit photographing people period or quit being a teacher. Primal Lens wrote: Displaying your work in a coffee house does not make you an artist. Dec 23 06 06:23 am Link Condensed... Dec 23 06 06:33 am Link Don't quit. I wish I could see your images. Dec 23 06 06:51 am Link Hamza wrote: DJ Watts wrote: Quit photographing people period or quit being a teacher. Where did I say the coffee shop was a gallery? Where did I say such showings make anyone an artist? You do not have to have your work publicly displayed to be an artist.I also have met the owner of the chain, he has seen my work on his walls. Dec 23 06 07:01 am Link Primal Lens wrote: Dude, all I am saying is know where you live and know the public's opinion. America is uptight. Showing nude or sexual anything in public just leaves yourself open to all kinds of bullshit... Dec 23 06 07:13 am Link Hamza wrote: No different than in 95% of the rest of the world. Dec 23 06 07:21 am Link Hamza wrote: DJ Watts wrote: Quit photographing people period or quit being a teacher. I think the O.P. has already made his choice - had a look at his profile and it says he isn't photographing models anymore. Sad. Dec 23 06 07:29 am Link Samantha Grace wrote: I must see the more open minded side of Cleveland than you...we have a huge artistic community...once you get outside of Cleveland I agree...but I've never seen an abundance of prudary in the city...heck Cleveland Heights was the first city in the country to have it's residents vote in same sex benefits for city employees... Dec 23 06 07:38 am Link naw, just dont ever go into that coffee house again. I had the same problem with coffee shop here. thats one of the reasons I photograph women, it disturbs certain people, who like the status quo, they don't like women who are unafraid to be sexy. I know with my style, If I only took pictures of women wearing black veils, people would still find them offencive, and disturbing. Keep up the revolution, do it for women's personal rights, do it for beauty, just do it for yourself. let the others work it out. charles kafka Dec 23 06 04:23 pm Link JAY carreon wrote: Yup, so ends that discussion. Dec 23 06 04:25 pm Link I found your situation odd, many people meet business and aquaintences in public places and talk business etc. Like you said if your models are 18 they as a public store/business where people meet and eat and have business lunches etc, they have no right telling you want business to discuss. Maybe you should put yourself in a seat where the computer screen faces a wall behing you so no one can look over your shoulder. Otherwise just tell the people "I wasn't talking to you and you should mind your own business". I was just talking to someone today about how many people get crazy over photographers. I was on a commercial shoot and some lady came out of her house to yell and cause trouble even though the shoot and location of what we were shooting ( a truck) had anything to do with her, her property, nothing! People are nosey and just crazy around photography lately, and have to put their two cents in even if it doesn't concern them. Sort of like me here lol. Dec 24 06 02:53 am Link PS> I had a photographer friend who was with a group of photographers and was asked to leave because the photo magazine cover offended the waitresses and customers. The magazine wasn't playboy it was American Photo! A general photo magazine. The offending magazine wasn't flashed around or being shown it was sitting on the table and they were sometimes looking at articles none of which had any nude women, but I was told the model on the cover was nude, but I'm not sure if she wasn't covered by copy or something else. But I'm sure it was tastfully done, the magazine wasn't a pin up zine. Crazy people what can you say. Dec 24 06 02:56 am Link apparently the OP is no longer a current member of MM ... Dec 24 06 02:56 am Link Corporations bought coffee house culture years ago, didn't you get the memo! Maybe find an establishment a bit more art scene friendly to discuss you pieces with friends, perhaps the current ownership is searching for a family oriented atmosphere to cater to the downtown shopping scene, which would likely be quite wise, or to compete with Starbucks, in which case you'll be able to return in 24 months since they'll go out of business. Sister of, was the operative word set in the the narrative since she was likely putting more enthusiam into operating the front of house than those who were in the upstairs office writing checks to pay the utilities... Nothing like scaring off long-dedicated time clients to fit an image in your mind, rather than a reality in your home town until nobody come in anymore, and they have the perfect clientelle, themselves and their family...! Sister of can start paying 300% markups for a cup of coffee as a reward for her dedicated service, this cups on the house... Dec 24 06 03:09 am Link find a new coffee house and hope they don't find out your a high school teacher. some people are not open to nude photography and find it offensive . Dec 24 06 03:11 am Link Frank M. Lopez wrote: Yeah, maybe he'll return once he understands Pilgrims don't have Internet access... Dec 24 06 03:18 am Link missing fingers product wrote: I pictured him as a community college professor, either way...oy vei... Dec 24 06 03:19 am Link It's unfortunate that the OP felt pressured to quit what he enjoys doing out of fear for keeping his job. In my part of California there is a similiar attitude but I do get contacted by quite a few interested models. I'd suggest to others not to bring samples of nudes to a public establishment if the photos can easily be viewed by others. Dec 24 06 03:21 am Link DJ Watts wrote: It appears you already quit, but perhaps you're still reading. Dec 24 06 03:36 am Link Jason McKendricks wrote: i agree....... Dec 24 06 03:36 am Link Bruce Millich wrote: I wouldn't bring it to their attention. It's not their business. If you make it their business, then they might actually THINK about it and then decide they don't like it and make new policies. Dec 24 06 03:38 am Link No! I've lived through something parallel to this. I worked at for a small research firm for years that was attached to a University (and the feds). I've been a musician (or, at least attempting to be one!) since I was about 8 years old (now 45). I had played in a number of bands up through my early 20's/college years when I quit and decided to just do things at home and "grow up". But Life, as they say, is what happens while you are making other plans. In my early 30's I met some very interesting people and things *just happened*. Before we knew it, we had an CD. Then another. And then shows...and bigger shows, and more people, and magazine articles, and international attention...and...wow! It's not like we were stadium acts but we had reached what the industry refers to as "second tier" act. All of this happened while I worked M-F at my *normal* job - but as things happened, I began to hear things at work....and then the "meeting" with the henchmen... it was *suggested* that I had to give up the band because, according to the contract I signed with the company when I was hired, I was not allowed to work for any other companies without consent. This agreement had nothing to do with me playing music in a band - I knew it, they knew it - but they shoved it in my face anyway. I rarely took time off from work (plus I had plenty of vacation time saved up after 15 year anyway!) and the band did not interfere with my job. But, no, I was not going to give up something that was a part of who and what I was. Within two years I was fired. That was 4.5 years ago and I have never had a more liberating experience in my life! I never thought I could live without a "career". Was I ever wrong! I'm not making nearly as much money as I was back then, but I can't even begin to tell you how much happier I am as a person. Life has taken on a whole new meaning and perspective and I love it! Never again will I ever let some manager, boss, corporate prick, whatever...threaten me with the loss of a job because I am not comforming to their standards during the hours I am not required to be in my office. I KNOW I can live without that kind of shit now. (please note - I am NOT saying I won't do the work required of me at any given job) This may sound drastic - but there comes a time when you have to stand up and say enough is enough. You cannot and will not take away something that is an inherit part of who and what I am simply because you disapprove of it. As long as you do it with Respect, Integrity and within the limits of the Law, there can be no compromise. Now, don't get me wrong, I am not advocating you broadcast to the school system you photograph nudes - but as someone said, when you act scared you come across as something other than a professional. Do what you need to do, not what other people tell you that you have to do! In the end, you will be a much happier person! Best of luck! -R p.s. in a month or so, our 4th CD will be released  Dec 24 06 03:45 am Link |
