Mr-Kato wrote:
..

Thats alot of info.. Refreshingly frank

studio_14 wrote:

I guess it is putting yourself out there too much to show the work. Theres a few content providers here but no one will say for who. Its abit odd.

That and its against the MM rules to promote adult sites here on MM

Hamza wrote:
So you still didn't give us the addresses of the three sites you shoot content for...

What's up with that?


Now this is a GWC way to make a buck if ever I saw one...

Read my edit. You took either took it out of context or I wasn't clear enough.

Hamza wrote:
So you still didn't give us the addresses of the three sites you shoot content for...What's up with that?

Have you tried looking in my portfolio? Kinda hard to miss

Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:
As a guy who has 26 membership websites, with a new 20 site program about to launch, I can tell you that it is far more complicated than most of you hear seem to understand.  The days of "if you launch it they will come" are long gone.

For every argument you can make for having your own merchant account, you can argue equally use for using ccBill or another 3rd party biller.

For all the importance you can argue about having traffic, you also have to argue about the 1000 different ways to get it.  It is also complicated.

I appreciate the sincerity of this thread, I often wonder how many of you are actually out there in the thick to know how complex it really is.

Yep. What sites do you run?

MrE Creations wrote:
Yep. What sites do you run?

www.girliesites.com

It isn't a secret.

EDIT:  I corrected a typo in the URL above that was caught by a poster below.

Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:

www.girlisites.com

It isn't a secret.

That site doesnt exist...

MrE Creations wrote:
That site doesnt exist...

Typo:   www.girliesites.com

Try it again.  You can also just google "Aavian"

Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:

Typo:   www.girliesites.com

Try it again.  You can also just google "Aavian"

Damn, you dont shoot all those do you? I shoot 3 and can hardly keep up haha

MrE Creations wrote:
Damn, you dont shoot all those do you? I shoot 3 and can hardly keep up haha

I have shot over 150,000 images since March of this year as well as over 600 videos.

Except for a bit of the content on the Jacy Andrews site (I don't do hardcore, but we are friends so I did her site for her) , I shot every photo there.

I have a bit of expertise on how paysites are actually done from experience.

Moraxian wrote:
First of all, the buyer doesn't have to get any of the information about the models.  It's up to the producer (the primary producer, ie. those of us who take the photos) to get accurate records.  Those records being a clear federal or state photo ID for models who are US citizens or have work visas.  Also needed are model releases that either cover all the work you do with a model (i.e. the model is under contract) or a release for each shoot.  With one exception, all of my shoots are individually contracted events, each with their own release.  It is also required that producers make a "good faith" effort to get all of the stage names a model has worked with.  I have that area on the release form.

If you mean buyer as in consumer, then you are correct. But website owners who buy content are definitely going to require model data. And I don't know about anyone else, but I am not too comfortable sending this info to someone I do business with over the net.

Moraxian wrote:
With regards to 2257, which all paysite providers need to comply with, regardless of whether the material on the site is adult or not (I think my sites are R rated, but that doesn't mean someone else doesn't think their X rated...).

Everyone has to comply, but compliance may be simply conforming to the requirements to be exempt.

Samantha Grace wrote:
Great advice, a lot of stuff I kind of already knew. I have been researching this for a number of years now. I am just looking for help on the technical end of it.
It was interesting to see Pattycake's site. I do not see her as a Betty Page. I think there are girls who have more of the Betty Page look, like http://www.switchbladestilettos.com/.  I personally, do not find her attractive. She is just a plain girl. But I think that is the draw to her. I think men like the idea they can access her.

I have been told by many fetish model friends, get a paysite. You are so easy to market. A few of them, I have been on their sites. I actually, want to see if friends of mine who run a sucessful porn site will help me. Their site has been around since 1998.

My site wouldn't be considered a porn site. I would call it more of a fan site. Where my photos will be very Pg-13, some tasteful Playboy style nudes every once in a while.

I like your ideas for a website!   You are the kind of model I would like on my www.internetmodelclub.com  ... the site is a networking site for all models except those who do porn.  I'm the final judge as to what is porn and who gets on my website.  Just like with Model Mayhem, if you don't like it, you don't have to be here. 

Merry Christmas!

Jeff Marsh wrote:
There are a whole lot of things that have to be done correctly to be successful but having a webmaster you can trust, to me, is #1 on the list for the model.

There are a lot of mickey mouse operators out there.  What it comes down to is this.  Is the modeling hiring someone to run a site for her or is she being hired by a producer to model for a site.

I hire and pay models to shoot for me.  I offer models the chance to participate in sites financially, assuming that they contribute on an ongoing basis.  From my perspective, if they drop out, they have been paid for what they have done.

On the other hand, if a model is trying to get someone to operate a site for her, then the ground rules change.  Most, successful producers aren't going to run a site for someone else unless they are very (and I emphasize VERY) well known.

What happens is that most models who want to have a site done either get invovled with "wannabees," their boyfriends or relatively small players.  There are models out there who've gotten involved with the bigger players and made good money, however, their control comes from their success.  What I am saying is that they often get in with little control, but as they start making more and more money for the producer, their voice becomes more important because they are important to the profits.

Christopher Ambler wrote:
So Alan, riddle me this - with the incredible amount of free porn on the net, what entices Joe Sixpack to shell out the $10 to $30 a month for a pay site?

It is simple, you only get to see for free, what others want you to see.  You don't get to see what you want to.

For the website producer, it is about providing something that a person is willing to pay for.  Whether it is a great theme, young talent they feel they won't be able to see elsewhere, large collections of a specific group such as teens or blondes, etc.  You are right, there is so much that a producer has to understand what the market wants at that moment or one can easily put in a lot of effort and see little return.

Christopher Ambler wrote:
Me, I have the technical side and also know enough about the marketing to know that it's a business I just don't want to enter because it is, indeed, so difficult. I have a lot of respect for those who can make it work and turn a profit.

You are absolutely right about one thing.  Most people have no idea how difficult it is these days to start an effective affiliate program and actually make money.  I respect your hesitation, and the truth is that many more fail than succeed.

Christopher Ambler wrote:
The thing I find most interesting is that the technical and marketing sides are both critical, yet almost all people I know who have tried to make a successful pay site had the technical side down but not the marketing, and failed.

Me, I have the technical side and also know enough about the marketing to know that it's a business I just don't want to enter because it is, indeed, so difficult. I have a lot of respect for those who can make it work and turn a profit.

Marketing skils are most probably more important than technical skills. different serveys I have read indicated that so long as they(customer) get what they want, how fancy the internal workings of the website goes is not an issue. Yes the outside freebie area is important to help attract the customer, but it is ultimately content the makes them buy from YOU. The more traffic you can get to your site, the bigger the chances are you will find that potential customer who will drop 5-$60 per month for your site. I have charged as little as $4 per month and as much as $30 per month for a membership, and it still boils down to marketing, I was doing just as many sales with $5/month poorly marketed at the beginning as I am now at $25 for a membership with much better targeted marketing and a slick, FAST downloading preview area. I have the same number of customers I had when I first started out (after 8 months in) as I do now but with lower hosting fees so I am making more money. I am in a niche market and do not have nudity in my site as a rule (yes there are a few shots over the past number of years) I have had many other producers telling me to shoot more nudity if I want to make more money, If I wanted to make money, I would not be running an adult site. I have always made more money selling non-adult material both online and otherwise. Out of 1000 paysite that make it to the sales stage, 990 will fail within a year and 9 more of them will pack it in by the end of year 2 once the workload is realized in a paysite situation where structured updates are needed or promised. Like any business a lot fo time and hard work goes into getting that first site up and running, after that it get easier as the learning curve is much shallower and the rate of success rises

Kendall S. wrote:
my site will be up in 1 week, we are using webpro by paypal, they only take 3 percent of each transaction and allow implied nude. They just need to have access to your account to log in every now and then and verify you are staying implied. So to me that 3 percent compared to 10 or even 16 is well worth it! And my husbands best friend is the webmaster and myself and all the other models we are setting up sites for run it themselves, we just handle the network and web issues.

my husband and i are in this together and that is what makes it great, we decide on it all together. So hopefully it will be successful!!!  Let me know if you want to discuss a site with us!

The online merchant account provider I use charges about 3%, and is fine with art nudes, implieds etc. ... but not sexual content.  I actually own my own billing software and servers so I don't even have to give out passwords to anyone.  I certainly agree with you that no one should be paying 10 to 16 percent for billing transactions!  The 20% hold backs are what really blow a budget!  LOL

Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:
As a guy who has 26 membership websites, with a new 20 site program about to launch, I can tell you that it is far more complicated than most of you hear seem to understand.  The days of "if you launch it they will come" are long gone.

For every argument you can make for having your own merchant account, you can argue equally use for using ccBill or another 3rd party biller.

For all the importance you can argue about having traffic, you also have to argue about the 1000 different ways to get it.  It is also complicated.

I appreciate the sincerity of this thread, I often wonder how many of you are actually out there in the thick to know how complex it really is.

That is where having an affilate program that networks with many other websites, one on one promotion, as well as a good IT person who understands how to use search engines and meta tags. Buying multiple domains to use as redirect links also increases traffic.

Samantha Grace wrote:
It is really hard finding someone you trust to help you out. See I want to still have control of my business. I want to own everything from the site, to all my photos. When I am a old lady, I do not want to end up like Bettie Page. We can all take a lesson from her, she owned nothing. The photographers were making money off her image. Now she is buying her photos back, and making some cash. But still not that much, because she still makes really bad business moves.

I think to be sucessful, you always need to hire good people to help you out. I think a paysite with guidence would be great for me. I have a free life. I do not have a husban, children, or a regular job to take time away from my focus.

I have friends who have a sucessful pornsite. They are a husban and wife team, they do all the work together. I was thinking about having them help me out. I believe in time I could do it myself. But right now I have no idea. There is just way to much to learn. I just do not know enough of the basics to do much.

I know for my my biggest problem is finding a webmaster, who doesn't want control. I want to pay him for his services. I would also, like to be every interactive on my site, have chats weekly. My friend Chrissy Daniels, insidechrissy.com does very well. She and her otehr half run the site. What makes her sucessful, is she is a real person to her fans. She talks to them, holds webcam chats. Has a messege board. That way they get close to her, and feel  it is worth the cash. Rather then a model, who just posts photos, video, and a blog once in a while. I think the men who pay for sites, want to feel connected to the model.

Team work.  100% Ownership of the site by one person.  Having a style of making members feel personally connected with the model .. those are all good things!  There are many webmasters out there ... I hope you'll find someone you feel comfortable with soon!

Mr-Kato wrote:

Marketing skils are most probably more important than technical skills. different serveys I have read indicated that so long as they(customer) get what they want, how fancy the internal workings of the website goes is not an issue. Yes the outside freebie area is important to help attract the customer, but it is ultimately content the makes them buy from YOU. The more traffic you can get to your site, the bigger the chances are you will find that potential customer who will drop 5-$60 per month for your site. I have charged as little as $4 per month and as much as $30 per month for a membership, and it still boils down to marketing, I was doing just as many sales with $5/month poorly marketed at the beginning as I am now at $25 for a membership with much better targeted marketing and a slick, FAST downloading preview area. I have the same number of customers I had when I first started out (after 8 months in) as I do now but with lower hosting fees so I am making more money. I am in a niche market and do not have nudity in my site as a rule (yes there are a few shots over the past number of years) I have had many other producers telling me to shoot more nudity if I want to make more money, If I wanted to make money, I would not be running an adult site. I have always made more money selling non-adult material both online and otherwise. Out of 1000 paysite that make it to the sales stage, 990 will fail within a year and 9 more of them will pack it in by the end of year 2 once the workload is realized in a paysite situation where structured updates are needed or promised. Like any business a lot fo time and hard work goes into getting that first site up and running, after that it get easier as the learning curve is much shallower and the rate of success rises

Much of it has to do with having the patience to hang in there with the learning curve.

Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:
The days of "if you launch it they will come" are long gone.

*sigh* Too true.

John Emslie wrote:
good luck - it's a tough game these days.  i shoot some of these websites and have a bunch more ready to launch.

there's only one market for a photographer to make money selling content and it's all amateur style and the pay is just ok - once you get the hang of shooting quickly
it's ok.  my first site literally took me 6 months to shoot, i was shooting 350 shots per amateur photoset. now i can knock out a complete website in 5 days with a good model. 

i'm always looking for new models -  i pay anywhere between $1000 and $2500 for a 'find' that I can shoot. and the girls get between $5-10K for 5-10 days of posing.
I don't pay girls by a percentage of website revenue because I don't want to be a business partner with a 19 year old and the truth is girls who take those pecentage of a website revenue deals usually never end up getting paid what I offer upfront. there are exceptions,  a small number.

so if anybody has any youthful dead cute and sexy girls i'd love to take a look at them.

Hey John, thanks for you comments on this subject.  You mention "amateur style" as being your focus, and I agree.  There are many photographers who I admire for their incredible use of glamour lighting technics and photo shopping abilities.  I'm very humble about my photography and just want to make some money at what I enjoy doing.  It is the amateur style that sells on many of these model paysites, and that's what I shoot for.  I shot with film for many years before picking up digital.  So I shoot as if I am still shooting film, with little or no intention of making corrections with photo shop. When shooting for a website content, there is a need to produce 100's if not 1,000's of images with each session.  No way do I want to spend time with photo shopping that many images! Who cares if each and every image is not perfect? It's what sells that counts!

Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:
The days of "if you launch it they will come" are long gone.

Nihilus wrote:
*sigh* Too true.

Hey Nihilus, Love your work! The alternative market is especially crowded since SG blow up the scene to the mainstream.  It is a lot of work, and only the hardest workers will survive!

Patrick Walberg wrote:
Hey Nihilus, Love your work! The alternative market is especially crowded since SG blow up the scene to the mainstream.  It is a lot of work, and only the hardest workers will survive!

Thank you! I know it...and it doesn't bode well for a procrastinator! My aspirations for my site are minimal though, as I view it more as a personal hobby than a moneymaker...but hopefully the few contacts I still have from my more 'adult'-focused days will at least help it stay afloat.

Kendall S. wrote:
my site will be up in 1 week, we are using webpro by paypal, they only take 3 percent of each transaction and allow implied nude. They just need to have access to your account to log in every now and then and verify you are staying implied. So to me that 3 percent compared to 10 or even 16 is well worth it! And my husbands best friend is the webmaster and myself and all the other models we are setting up sites for run it themselves, we just handle the network and web issues.

my husband and i are in this together and that is what makes it great, we decide on it all together. So hopefully it will be successful!!!  Let me know if you want to discuss a site with us!

I am interested in getting more information about this.