Delia Mak wrote:
"Model posing naked gets mauled by a 600lbs tiger just for art's sake"

"Nude art model gets amazing photos posing with 600lbs tiger. Potential client sees model is will to step outside the homogenized zone and consider risk to get attention and is awarded assigment"

Jordan Bunniie wrote:
I would be stoked at the opportunity to shoot an editorial with tigers, but there are safety issues as others have pointed out. I, personally, would want at least one trainer per animal. At least.
I've been around tigers and other wild and exotic animals. Well trained ones with good handlers and are not easily spooked with a docile, submissive manner STILL attack, they still bite, etc. its risky. 
Hell, even a tiny little rabbit will bite your finger off if you touch it wrong.

Another thing could be that you're just offering trade. Are you thinking of submitting them somewhere? Just offering images is hardly worth risking serious, possibly career killing injury or death. Publication in a worthwhile magazine *could* maybe make the gig more appealing to models.

Yep - and if I read the OP correctly it said nothing about the trainer/handler(s) and their credentials. This alone would make me nervous about moving forward.

Dorola wrote:
Editorial Style Theme with 600 Pound Tiger (Nude)

Not sure from your post, is the tiger nude or the model nude?

just wondered

Azimuth Arts wrote:
What I came to realise is that I did not really show evidence in my portfolio that I was going to be able to deliver on the concept.  For instance when I posted a casting for a hotel shoot (Boudoir style, no nudes) I didn't get many takers - I suspect because it was my first hotel shoot and most of my portfolio at the time was studio based fashion.  As it turned out the results were okay but not great.

Dorola wrote:
"Nude art model gets amazing photos posing with 600lbs tiger. Potential client sees model is will to step outside the homogenized zone and consider risk to get attention and is awarded assigment"

If she wants that, she can go shoot with Sylvie Blum who also does pay models:

http://nudetvshow.com/nude-models-and-b … lvie-blum/

ms-photo wrote:
Strict requirements for models, no pay, potential danger, and especially this:

+100000

Ken Marcus Studios wrote:
Ask Siegfried and Roy what they think of amateurs posing with tigers and see what they say . . . . .

Unless you have a professional team of handlers on hand to control the tiger, it's not a good idea to even be around them.

On movie sets where tigers are being used, women are not allowed on set if they have their periods . . . something to think about.

I guarantee that your standard liability insurance will not cover you if there is an accident and the model gets attacked. Make sure you contact your insurance agent well before the shoot to make sure you have extra coverage.

I had an amusement park as a client several years ago. They had a variety of animals on display and in performances.

The amount of precautions and safety measures park officials took (not to mention the 5 page release I had to sign before being allowed access to the animals) was very impressive.

Best of luck . . .

KM

This.

Toronto has a LOT of quality models. I know many agencies here full
of excellent and well established models. There are also tons of freelance models.
None of the modeling agencies would send their
precious models out for an offer such as that.

I've modeled with tigers, leopards, baboons, and lion cubs for a local
zoo brochure. I was wearing a business suit and there was a team for makeup, hair
and wardrobe plus set designers. Each model was insured for this shoot, and each
of us were well paid with GREAT commercial tearsheets as well. Lots of professional animal handlers and security involved from the zoo. The photographer was also amazing with a strong fashion and editorial port. So, no there is no shortage of Toronto models. It's that your offer isn't appealing to enough of them during the time span of your casting.

Nothing is 100% safe in life. But there is such a thing as choosing the best possible
safety precautions when risking ones life.

Good luck with your casting!

Dorola wrote:

"Nude art model gets amazing photos posing with 600lbs tiger. Potential client sees model is will to step outside the homogenized zone and consider risk to get attention and is awarded assigment"

Yeah... because that's how this industry works, right?

Consider digging into your pockets next time.  You will probably have more response.

You put your casting call up for critique.  And you're fighting every one of us as to why you might not have gotten a better response.  Perhaps that is more telling than the requirements of your casting.

Good Egg Productions wrote:

Yeah... because that's how this industry works, right?

Consider digging into your pockets next time.  You will probably have more response.

You put your casting call up for critique.  And you're fighting every one of us as to why you might not have gotten a better response.  Perhaps that is more telling than the requirements of your casting.

Its like you took the words right out of my mouth!

J O H N  A L L A N wrote:

Yep - and if I read your OP correctly you said nothing about the trainer/handler(s) and their credentials. This alone would make me nervous about moving forward.

I did mention handlers for the tigers if you read the casting.

Really people, do you think that me as the photographer, the animal owners and handlers are going to have an uncontrolled environtment and subject the model and myself to high risk? The details of the shoot and safety measures are exacting and will only be discussed with the succesfull applicants. If you also noticed, I did not mention what food we might have available or ask if anyone was lactose intolerant or had peanut butter allergies. Maybe someome will had a preference for a particular type of toilett paper for the washroom. Think of how many of you have had models models in abandoned buildings, salt water (jelly fish danger) or a back alley. There is is risk in everything and if you don't step up and try something different then you are doomed to a life of vanilla. I'm not telling people to adopt what I do, instead I'm giving the opportunity to live life larger.

Dorola wrote:

I did mention handlers for the tigers if you read the casting.

Really people, do you think that me as the photographer, the animal owners and handlers are going to have an uncontrolled environtment and subject the model and myself to high risk? The details of the shoot and safety measures are exacting and will only be discussed with the succesfull applicants. If you also noticed, I did not mention what food we might have available or ask if anyone was lactose intolerant or had peanut butter allergies. Maybe someome will had a preference for a particular type of toilett paper for the washroom. Think of how many of you have had models models in abandoned buildings, salt water (jelly fish danger) or a back alley. There is is risk in everything and if you don't step up and try something different then you are doomed to a life of vanilla. I'm not telling people to adopt what I do, instead I'm giving the opportunity to live life larger.

Maybe offering food and mentioning it in the casting will attract some models, and maybe more tigers.

Sexybeautifulchaos wrote:
I will say the way you wrote the casting just in the first paragraph scared me off, so I know it probably scared many models off. and by saying their can not be an escort because the model needs to be more concerned about the tiger. That would make me feel uneasy, and sorry to say but even though this may be an awesome shoot there are to many cautions to do it for free.

You are, right that I did put elements in the casting that suggest there is a serious amount of danger possible. Saying 600lbs tiger should be enough to make anyone think twice. So I only want models that are willing to ask the questions about their safety. I have been with a 525lbs tiger before and it was one of the most humbling mouments in my life. It scared me more than diving with sharks in the Pacific Ocean. So when I say that this theme would be rehearsed, it would be for everyone's safety. Have a bit of fear and being careful is a lot better than being fearless and careless.

Delia Mak wrote:
I don't think there is a higher risk than a tiger. Tigers are born with a natural predator sense even if they have been tamed / trained.

You mentioned of an owner. So, it's not a zoo? I guess the tiger will be ensured to not be very hungry before entering the set. How many handlers would be there on a set? 

Not everyone has an insurance. Would you pay a model's health bills if she gets injured from this incident with a 600lbs tiger?

If some models care about getting published, your casting call could have mentioned about publication you plan to submit those pictures.

I don't know much about shooting with tigers though. I could be allergic to tigers since I'm allergic to dogs and cats. So, I personally choose my safety over this risk.

You are quite right the tigers are not in a zoo and are held privately. They interact with the owner's family on a daily basis and often times in the house. There are handlers on staff 24 hours a day and if the cats are around humans, there is at least 1 handler for each one. There is a routine for any new human visitors to follow to get the cat accepting and acclimatized to the individual. During a shoot, the cats would be in surroundings that they were very used to and comfortable in and several people that they had positive relationship with would be working the tigers, just out of range of the lens.

Next to humans, tigers are apex predators. Human encroachment on their habitat and sport has kill most of them. The opportunity to be photographed with a real one will not be around forever. At 600lbs, if the tigers want to maul someone, then the cats will do it. By seeing the cats are fed well, exercised regularly, stimulated intellectually and have playtime, aggression from the cats in minimized. At all times there is staff that has professional experience with large felines monitoring the cats. The staff carries a 44 Magnum and are instructed to use it should a human's life be in peril.

There is no insurance for this. For any model that I accept, a site review will be done and risks considered. If a model doesn't want to do it, I have no issues. I will be with the tigers too and at just as much risk. As the photographer in front of the cats and pointing shiny lenses at the tigers, and being male, I have even more to worry about.

If you had any allergies to animals, this is not for you. Because of the type of shoot being collaborative, I'm hoping everyone will be using the photos for publication. Unlike many photographers, I don't restrict the usage for collaborations. My requirements are that all participants receive credit for their contribution, if there is any $$$ being paid for the photos that we all share and that I review each submission and edit the photos used for the submission. This collaboration routine has worked pretty good for me as over the last 5 year I've done over 100 model shoots a year (you can call it TF, but it is much better than that).

In review, I guess you could say I'm looking for the Apex model that wants to kill everyone else with unique photography in her portfolio.

Good Egg Productions wrote:
I'm not surprised you did not get a line of people wanting to risk their lives for a trade shoot.

Basically.

Dorola wrote:
Really people, do you think that me as the photographer, the animal owners and handlers are going to have an uncontrolled environtment and subject the model and myself to high risk? The details of the shoot and safety measures are exacting and will only be discussed with the succesfull applicants.

In newspaper terms, this is what you'd call "burying the lead".

If a person for a shoot like this isn't proactive about disclosing the safety measures for the world to see, its not worth a model's time in even responding.

& yes, YOU may have thought through the safety precautions & all that jazz & have a clear idea as to what you're going for but models will tell you that may photographers/art-directors will not.

Tori Alice Descoteaux wrote:
Yeah I forgot to say I think I would have some significant concerns about mauling too

I have a friend that did a shoot at a wild animal preserve in the Mid-West about ten years ago.  They shot with a number of animals, including a tiger.  All of the animals were accustomed to humans.For some reason the tiger got spooked and bit the model on the knee.  It punctured the skin and she had to go to the hospital.   

They dressed the wounds, gave her a shot and she finished the shoot the next day.  There is a truth here, though.  When dealing with wild animals, you can never be sure and it is never completely safe.

Farenell Photography wrote:

In newspaper terms, this is what you'd call "burying the lead".

If a person for a shoot like this isn't proactive about disclosing the safety measures for the world to see, its not worth a model's time in even responding.

& yes, YOU may have thought through the safety precautions & all that jazz & have a clear idea as to what you're going for but models will tell you that may photographers/art-directors will not.

Actually, I don't have to disclose any measures to you or the world. My "Duty of Care" is to satisfy the participants. If they don't feel secure about the measures taken, they can back out.

I don't think you read the casting either. At the end of it, I invited all potential models to ask questions. I would think that most people that read the WHOLE casting would understand to ask safety question about working with tigers.

I guess most people don't read and just skip to hasty preconceptions.

Jeffrey M Fletcher wrote:
So, are you actually interested in getting the best model for a tiger shoot, or are you interested in letting everyone know how edgy and dangerous you are and then whining about people's supposed lack of adventurousness or what you regard as their substandard reading skills?

In the postings, your bio, and this thread it kind of sounds more like the latter.

The bio is really what reinforces this for me

Dorola wrote:
Neither model had representative photos in their port that they could do this type of editorial work

And you do?

MDWM wrote:
The OP is mystified that models aren't knocking down his door to do a tiger shoot. The overwhelming responses have been the safety concerns of working with a live tiger. I read the casting call, the OP's profile and his responses to this thread. I'm beginning to think the problem is the photographer but not the 600 pound tiger.

Yep

Mark C Smith wrote:
And you do?

I actually think that's the problem and I'm surprised it hasn't been pointed out more emphatically already. What would put me off of this opportunity is not the lovely 600 pound bundle of teeth and fur (hell, well before I was doing all this silly modelling business I was a voluntary keeper at the zoo in the exotic carnivore division. I also volunteered on a wildlife orphanage in Africa for a little while. I know dangerous animals, and I've seen even the most conditioned big cats turn very suddenly.). When I look at your portfolio, I see no evidence of editorial work that would publish in a reputable magazine. Therefore, I wouldn't be confident that the images produced would go anywhere, and seeing as it's such a grand concept, that would be a huge waste to me. This is compounded by the fact that it requires nudity. Although nudity is regularly seen in fashion mags/blogs, a lot of publications still won't accept it, which narrows down your chances even further.

You haven't specified the types of publications that you will be submitting to. I definitely don't see fashion in your portfolio. Are you getting a designer or stylist with on-trend clothes on board? Are you actually submitting or just saying the final product will have an 'editorial' look to it (a hugely broad term in itself).

A huge logistical nightmare of a shoot has to be executed extremely well and within publishing guidelines. Based on your portfolio along with the significant risks, I'm just not sure that you could pull it off.

M E L U X I N E wrote:

I actually think that's the problem and I'm surprised it hasn't been pointed out more emphatically already. What would put me off of this opportunity is not the lovely 600 pound bundle of teeth and fur (hell, well before I was doing all this silly modelling business I was a voluntary keeper at the zoo in the exotic carnivore division. I also volunteered on a wildlife orphanage in Africa for a little while. I know dangerous animals, and I've seen even the most conditioned big cats turn very suddenly.). When I look at your portfolio, I see no evidence of editorial work that would publish in a reputable magazine. Therefore, I wouldn't be confident that the images produced would go anywhere, and seeing as it's such a grand concept, that would be a huge waste to me. This is compounded by the fact that it requires nudity. Although nudity is regularly seen in fashion mags/blogs, a lot of publications still won't accept it, which narrows down your chances even further.

You haven't specified the types of publications that you will be submitting to. I definitely don't see fashion in your portfolio. Are you getting a designer or stylist with on-trend clothes on board? Are you actually submitting or just saying the final product will have an 'editorial' look to it (a hugely broad term in itself).

A huge logistical nightmare of a shoot has to be executed extremely well and within publishing guidelines. Based on your portfolio along with the significant risks, I'm just not sure that you could pull it off.

+1

Alabaster Crowley wrote:
I don't believe in using animals as props. Tigers belong in the wild, not in your photo shoots.

Humans will likely be solely responsible for killing all the tigers in the next generation. If I can illustrate the harm we have done to this species and many others, my editorial theme will have success. If you read the casting or inquired about its purpose you might even champion the cause. If you assumed that this was to be some silly little nude glamour shoot with tigers, you didn't comprehend the casting or review the seriousness of my creative work.

Isis22 wrote:
To me, this isn't "art". Even if it were, it's not worth my life.

Ansel Adams was quoted as saying "if I say it is art, then it is art to me"

There is no intent to cause greif to anyone. If you applied and were accepted you would had the opportunity to see what the theme was all about.

The casting does mention that it is editorial in nature, so that should be a good hint that there is a purpose. You can think of it as art, but I have a motivation to do something much more worthwhile.

Dorola wrote:
I don't think you read the casting either. At the end of it, I invited all potential models to ask questions. I would think that most people that read the WHOLE casting would understand to ask safety question about working with tigers.

That's probably another strike. You actually are expecting people to read.

If people don't routinely read a person's bio (on both sides of the camera), why would they do that for a casting? This is a rhetorical question btw.

Farenell Photography wrote:
That's probably another strike. You actually are expecting people to read.

If people don't routinely read a person's bio (on both sides of the camera), why would they do that for a casting? This is a rhetorical question btw.

In 1979 I was training as a combat arms officer to go to Afghanistan. Part of that was mountain training. One day I was told, the following day, I would be proficient at rappelling down severe cliff faces and that I should read the training manual that evening. The next afternoon, I am tied off on lines at the edge of the cliff, looking down 200 feet of shear mountain droppage and my Warrant Officer asks "Are there any question or problems?, Then, make it happen". Yes, I did read the manual, I had questions, I was fearfull and I did become proficient at repelling in full combat gear.

I trust few people to be conscientious, read and understand what is required of them with a contract or casting. So if someone is not going to ask about their safety or won't do a rehearsal,  I know they have no understanding of what is ahead of them.