Photoman754 wrote:
Or at least that is what I am beginning to think

I contact models for shoots to get some exposure and experience and offer TFP, TFCD, $$$ or a combination.

Quite a few respond, "like your work", "would like to work with you", "definately interestd", etc. All the things I hope I would hear.

Then, on most, nothing. No more communication. I send follow up. Still nothing. Messages are being read but no feed back.

I guess I'm thinking there are so many photographers out there making proposals to models that they don't even see the need to respond to you anymore.

A simple "no thanks" would be the least they could do.

Believe me, I feel your pain. On the other hand, this is different from selling anything else on the planet exactly how?

I think because we photographers have our ego so intimately involved with our product, we feel we have earned more respect than the average American gives the average salesman. But the truth is, we're just like anybody else. We're no better or worse than anybody else selling out there. And the truth is -- people don't call back, change their mind, miss appointments, and all the rest all the time, even for people who actually ARE important -- like doctors, or hairdressers, or the Korean ladies who do people's nails.

It's life in the real world -- just take it in stride! This is where you begin to discover that being a photographer is about more than Nikon vs. Canon, which lenses are sharper, photoshop technique, and all the rest. You need good general people skills, good marketing skills, good sales skills, good closing skills, good customer service, and really, really good organizational abilities. These things make the biggest difference between being a successful professional, and a wannabe.

Regards,
Paul
http://www.bangbangphoto.com

Michael Barian wrote:
the better you get, the better your response rate will be.

Beat me too to it.  But that is exactly right.

Photoman754 wrote:
Or at least that is what I am beginning to think

I contact models for shoots to get some exposure and experience and offer TFP, TFCD, $$$ or a combination.

Quite a few respond, "like your work", "would like to work with you", "definately interestd", etc. All the things I hope I would hear.

Then, on most, nothing. No more communication. I send follow up. Still nothing. Messages are being read but no feed back.

I guess I'm thinking there are so many photographers out there making proposals to models that they don't even see the need to respond to you anymore.

A simple "no thanks" would be the least they could do.

Cary K wrote:
I think it helps when a photog follows up often and if nothing could be scheduled right away, emails again to get things rolling. It's hard to remember every offer you got, especially when it's a "lets get together soon" type thing and not a definite date. Please forgive us models if we forget that we were going to set something up.  I try to write everything down in a notebook, but even that gets confusing sometimes when you're looking at 20 different offers in front of you.

At what point does it become 'nagging' models.
To me that is another good reason to say not interested.

Doug Swinskey wrote:
you cant throw a rock in tampa without hitting a photographer...most are hammering the online models for TFP and a couple of them arent half bad...

OUCH!.....I'm in Ocala...but the rocks go far!

Seriously....it's the digital world comming at ya!.....now anyone who picks up do everything, automatic, whiz bang 100 million MEGA PIXEL camera considers themselves a "photographer"......little things like rule of composition....depth of field...learning lighting....f-stops, shutter speeds....and all the million thing you learn as a PROFESSIONAL....go out the window.....all you have to do is spend a few bucks for business cards....have a good rap and BINGO!.....you're a professional photographer.....

And we wonder why models are so skeptical!

FKVPhotoGraphics wrote:

OUCH!.....I'm in Ocala...but the rocks go far!

Seriously....it's the digital world comming at ya!.....now anyone who picks up do everything, automatic, whiz bang 100 million MEGA PIXEL camera considers themselves a "photographer"......little things like rule of composition....depth of field...learning lighting....f-stops, shutter speeds....and all the million thing you learn as a PROFESSIONAL....go out the window.....all you have to do is spend a few bucks for business cards....have a good rap and BINGO!.....you're a professional photographer.....

And we wonder why models are so skeptical!

Yeah it's amazing how many people are carrying L lenses that buy them just for fun. I know this has happened to all of you but I just can't get over some of the stupid questions people ask about their equipment that have have spent $2000-$3000.

Photoman754 wrote:

At what point does it become 'nagging' models.
To me that is another good reason to say not interested.

I'm not talking about the ones thta I reply not interested to right away. I'm talking about the ones where we've discussed that we really do want to work with one another, but one or the other can't book right away. I'd rather have a "nagging" reminder then to forget and miss out on the oportunity.

And it's true, I may not fit the mold of the "typical" model, but I'm hungrier for it and act more professional then most so called "professional" models. I've never not showed for a shoot or canceled last minute. Paid or TFP. You just have to be a better judge of who you're booking.

Claire Elizabeth wrote:
And there are plenty of photographers who dont respond as well as mua's. Everyone is busy. So what? They don't respond, so you move on to someone else.

Exactly.

So many photographers, models and MuA's take it personally if they don't get a response in 2 seconds their ready to kick some ass.

This is an industry people, not Disneyland
*dramatically removes Mickey Mouse ears*

Photoman754 wrote:
Or at least that is what I am beginning to think

I contact models for shoots to get some exposure and experience and offer TFP, TFCD, $$$ or a combination.

Quite a few respond, "like your work", "would like to work with you", "definately interestd", etc. All the things I hope I would hear.

Then, on most, nothing. No more communication. I send follow up. Still nothing. Messages are being read but no feed back.

I guess I'm thinking there are so many photographers out there making proposals to models that they don't even see the need to respond to you anymore.

A simple "no thanks" would be the least they could do.

Its really simple, there are to many G.W.C. out there calling them selfs photographers,Since digital and P.S.They have full time jobs and shoot for free,I would like to see how many GWC's would shoot so many femals if they had to use film
Then there is the ego thing ,so call models like to see how many photographers they can rack up to shoot them.
Now we have the "rude thing" since i have been using the internet, now matter where i go on it or how i use it i have learned that 85% of people who use it are rude,impolite or lacking manners.
(this is one mans opinion)

Photoman754 wrote:
I agree with everything you all have said.

You pros probably are referring to me as a GWC but until I get some models other than high school girls to build a decent portfolio, I'm fairly certain that there are not too many models in my area that are going to pay me for the photos they see that I've taken that look like senior pictures.

Thanks for all the responses.

Suck IT up and PAY a hot model.

Michael Barian wrote:

Suck IT up and PAY a hot model.

I am willing to pay!!!!!!

Photoman754 wrote:

I am willing to pay!!!!!!

Take a workshop.  That is a quick way to add a lot of quality shots to your portfolio, for not a lot of money.

Cory Stierley wrote:
WHAT IS A GWC??????????

It is a slam on amateur photographers that apparently buy digital cameras so they can take photos of nudes.

It stands for guy with camera.

It is, IMO, an insult.

FKVPhotoGraphics wrote:
Seriously....it's the digital world comming at ya!.....now anyone who picks up do everything, automatic, whiz bang 100 million MEGA PIXEL camera considers themselves a "photographer"......little things like rule of composition....depth of field...learning lighting....f-stops, shutter speeds....and all the million thing you learn as a PROFESSIONAL....go out the window.....all you have to do is spend a few bucks for business cards....have a good rap and BINGO!.....you're a professional photographer.....

And we wonder why models are so skeptical!

Well put.  Here in SoCal, there are a TON of those types!!!  Its funny when you get an amature model and take out your medium format, and they ask what it is...because other "photographers" that have shot them only use digital...cybershot supermen... $200 point and shoot, a laptop, and a pirated copy of photoshop, and YOU TOO can be a photographer!!! 
But seriously, if you have great work, the no shows and no responses rate is pretty low.  Also, as a rule, on sites like this I check out the last date the model logged in.  If its been a long while, I'll just keep moving along.
-Rob

Photoman754 wrote:
At what point does it become 'nagging' models.
To me that is another good reason to say not interested.

You are over-thinking and you are trying too hard. Your photos are good enough so you should have lots of people CALLING YOU, not you chasing them. The difference is probably that you don't have the exposure, so not enough people know about you yet. You might also be "smothering" the people who respond to you, as the cliche between men and women often goes.

Cast a wide net. Make yourself visible. Those who like you will come to you. Don't chase, because it drives people away and you will be chasing the flakes anyway. Let the model show some initiative. There are lots of very kind, thoughtful, creative and artistic people out there with sharp eyes and reliable behavior who will work with you in a professional manner and appreciate sincerely what you want to give.

Remember one of the fundamental laws of human nature: What people have they take for granted and don't want. In fact, they will even wipe their feet on you as a doormat for all the hard work you are trying to give them. What they can't have, they want more than anything. Models also want the photographers all the other models want.

So.

Forget about all the minutiae about whether you give an 11x14 or an 8x10, ... or a CD, etc. Stop groveling. It's embarrassing. You won't impress anyone with your "poor me, Mr. Nice Guy" whine. Don't worry about all the other guys out there humping legs like lost dogs with some shiny new camera to get women to show some T&A. There is an ocean of that stuff, and most of them barely know which side of the camera to look through. Lift yourself above the fray and concentrate on making the best photos you can.

Talent speaks for itself. Exposure increases the numbers. Change the course of the flow of the river in your direction and stop trying to catch a random handful of water.

When you reach the point where you run out of time and can't say yes to half the girls who are hounding you for photo shoots under ANY conditions, you will feel a sea change. Then they REALLY get competitive with each other for your time and attention. You will be able to select the best people who are polite, considerate and reliable. To do a good job is hard work for everyone involved ... both photographer and model. Those who understand this will take good care of each other and respect the opportunities that are around them.

There is another fundamental law of nature: 10% of the fishermen catch 90% of the fish.

Change your bait.


Sage advice from The Legendary Click Hamilton ;-)
www.pbase.com/click_hamilton

Click Hamilton wrote:

You are over-thinking and you are trying too hard. Your photos are good enough so you should have lots of people CALLING YOU, not you chasing them. The difference is probably that you don't have the exposure, so not enough people know about you yet. You might also be "smothering" the people who respond to you, as the cliche between men and women goes.

Cast a wide net. Make yourself visible. Those who like you will come to you. Don't chase, because it drives people away and you will be chasing the flakes anyway. Let the model show some initiative. There are lots of very kind, thoughtful, creative and artistic people out there with sharp eyes and reliable behavior who will work with you in a professional manner and appreciate sincerely what you want to give.

Remember one of the fundamental laws of human nature: What people have they take for granted and don't want. In fact, they will even wipe their feet on you as a doormat for all the hard work you are trying to give them. What they can't have, they want more than anything. Models also want the photographers all the other models want.

So.

Forget about all the minutiae about whether you give an 11x14 or an 8x10, ... or a CD, etc. Stop groveling. It's embarrassing. You won't impress anyone with your "poor me, Mr. Nice Guy" whine. Don't worry about all the other guys out there humping legs like lost dogs with some shiny new camera to get women to show some T&A. There is an ocean of that stuff, and most of them barely know which side of the camera to look through. Lift yourself above the fray and concentrate on making the best photos you can.

Talent speaks for itself. Exposure increases the numbers. Change the course of the flow of the river in your direction and stop trying to catch a random handful of water.

When you reach the point where you run out of time and can't say yes to half the girls who are hounding you for photo shoots under ANY conditions, you will feel a sea change. Then they REALLY get competitive with each other for your time and attention. You will be able to select the best people who are polite, considerate and reliable. To do a good job is hard work for everyone involved ... both photographer and model. Those who understand this will take good care of each other and respect the opportunities that are around them.

There is another fundamental law of nature: 10% of the fishermen catch 90% of the fish.

Change your bait.


Sage advice from The Legendary Click Hamilton ;-)
www.pbase.com/click_hamilton

Thank you very much. I appreciate you taking the time for a good answer.

Cory Stierley wrote:
What is a GWC?

It's a guy wanting chicks.

I think there are several billion on the planet at last count.

Photoman754 wrote:

I am willing to pay!!!!!!

Contact NC17 MM# 122485.

She is excellent, very reliable, and her rates are quite reasonable.

Highly recommended.

And she will respond within 48 hours generally.

Photoman754 wrote:
Thank you very much. I appreciate you taking the time for a good answer.

Have fun and good luck. Life is sweet.

Click Hamilton

"Getting ideas is like shaving: if you don't do it every day, you're a bum --Alex Kroll"
http://www.pbase.com/click_hamilton/clean_shave
From the series "CLEAN SHAVE"

Photoman754 wrote:
It is a slam on amateur photographers that apparently buy digital cameras so they can take photos of nudes. It stands for guy with camera.
It is, IMO, an insult.

directly from the MM FAQ

"GWC is an acronym for "Guy With Camera." It's a derogatory term for amateur photographer that's taken the interweb by storm. It usually implies that said guy is only interested in photography to get hot ladies to get nekkid for him."

its not an insult if the shoe fits....

Click Hamilton wrote:

Have fun and good luck. Life is sweet.

Click Hamilton

"Getting ideas is like shaving: if you don't do it every day, you're a bum --Alex Kroll"
http://www.pbase.com/click_hamilton/clean_shave
From the series "CLEAN SHAVE"