Photographer
Marcus J. Ranum
Posts: 3247
MORRISDALE, Pennsylvania, US
Brit Small wrote:
So I've been feeling out the site and I think its great, but Im having an issue with all the nudes. Since you're a minor, you shouldn't be seeing any nudes. If you are, then use the contact-a-mod system and get the offending images marked 18+ and you can either look at them when you're older or go someplace else. It's a big internet, I'm sure you can find a place you don't have any "issues" with, if you try.
mjr.
Model
Gretchen
Posts: 72
Los Angeles, California, US
This is so much fun to read, and I hate to pop in at this heated moment. I'm sure I'm the last person you'd like to see posting, but I just want to say one thing: Throughout this thread I've been clarifying and explaining further, but nobody seems to have paid any attention to it. Please please go back and read the rest of what I said if you have responded to things I've said in the beginning of the post.
Photographer
ooooo 99
Posts: 7
Ohh ALL Nudes are so icky.....
I find it so very odd that people who are in an industry
(or pretending to be by being on hosted modeling sites)
Yet don't do any homework or get any facts ..
Thus they don't no shit about said "industry"..
They say they are a "model" but don't know who:
..............HELMUT NEWTON is................?
And certainly have a myriad of opinions that they have no
problems whatsoever distributing to the masses often as facts! .......
No matter how experienceless they may be........
Ironically many wouldn't know Helmut Newton from Fig Newton..
Photographer
ChristerArt
Posts: 2861
Cambridge, England, United Kingdom
eldorado wrote:
Ohh ALL Nudes are so icky.....
I find it so very odd that people who are in an industry
(or pretending to be by being on hosted modeling sites)
Yet don't do any homework or get any facts ..
Thus they don't no shit about said "industry"..
They say they are a "model" but don't know who:
..............HELMUT NEWTON is................?
And certainly have a myriad of opinions that they have no
problems whatsoever distributing to the masses often as facts! .......
No matter how experienceless they may be........
Ironically many wouldn't know Helmut Newton from Fig Newton.. I am laughing - it is soo true..=*^)
Photographer
EAD Productions
Posts: 197
New York, New York, US
Christerart made perfect sense..... and to all those who like to separate photography into neat little sections.... A photographer can separate books infinitely. It just depends on your budget and willingness. You can have a black and white fashion, a color fashion, a catalog commercial book, a portrait book, a celebrity book, a reportage book, a movement dance book, a personal whatever floats your boat book, a nude "tame" book, an erotic clothed book, and erotic nude book... it goes ON and ON. AND, you could further separate those books, for example take the color fashion book and separate it into two, a couture book and a pret-a-porter book. For those of you getting advice on how you "think" it works. This IS how it works (professionally speaking anyway).
So for those of you who make "rules" about this is what people want to see, be artist yourselves and break them, or conform and follow, it doesn't matter. But I love hearing the people who say "I have a friend who works as a "so and so", somewhere, and they said, blah blah blah.......
And christerart, it was interesting to me that your main photo was your eye doctor...very cool!
Photographer
ChristerArt
Posts: 2861
Cambridge, England, United Kingdom
EAD Productions wrote:
Christerart made perfect sense..... and to all those who like to separate photography into neat little sections.... A photographer can separate books infinitely. It just depends on your budget and willingness. You can have a black and white fashion, a color fashion, a catalog commercial book, a portrait book, a celebrity book, a reportage book, a movement dance book, a personal whatever floats your boat book, a nude "tame" book, an erotic clothed book, and erotic nude book... it goes ON and ON. AND, you could further separate those books, for example take the color fashion book and separate it into two, a couture book and a pret-a-porter book. For those of you getting advice on how you "think" it works. This IS how it works (professionally speaking anyway).
So for those of you who make "rules" about this is what people want to see, be artist yourselves and break them, or conform and follow, it doesn't matter. But I love hearing the people who say "I have a friend who works as a "so and so", somewhere, and they said, blah blah blah.......
And christerart, it was interesting to me that your main photo was your eye doctor...very cool! Thanks EAD - she's an amazing woman - never been photographed before she worked with me - very, very sensual - a joy to work with..=*^)
a few more of her here:
http://www.christerart.com/Fotose/peek.htm
#rs 4, 5, 6, 8 (of course), 89, 90, 91, 92, 187....
Checked your profile - Lovely Work...
Christer
Model
Gretchen
Posts: 72
Los Angeles, California, US
eldorado wrote:
Ohh ALL Nudes are so icky.....
I find it so very odd that people who are in an industry
(or pretending to be by being on hosted modeling sites)
Yet don't do any homework or get any facts ..
Thus they don't no shit about said "industry"..
They say they are a "model" but don't know who:
..............HELMUT NEWTON is................?
And certainly have a myriad of opinions that they have no
problems whatsoever distributing to the masses often as facts! .......
No matter how experienceless they may be........
Ironically many wouldn't know Helmut Newton from Fig Newton.. Who might you be referring to... me or someone else who has posted here?
Explain to me why I should know who Helmut Newton is. How is he going to get me further in the fashion industry? And explain to me how I would have known who he is if I am not a photographer and I have no interest in looking for images of nude women.
Photographer
Fotticelli
Posts: 12252
Rockville, Maryland, US
Gretchen wrote:
Who might you be referring to... me or someone else who has posted here?
Explain to me why I should know who Helmut Newton is. How is he going to get me further in the fashion industry? And explain to me how I would have known who he is if I am not a photographer and I have no interest in looking for images of nude women. No really you should know who Helmut Newton is just like every photographer should know who Calvin Klein is or what DKNY stands for. People will not take you seriously if you don't.
Model
Gretchen
Posts: 72
Los Angeles, California, US
Gregory Garecki wrote:
No really you should know who Helmut Newton is just like every photographer should know who Calvin Klein is or what DKNY stands for. People will not take you seriously if you don't. Those are real questions... I mean, if someone can answer them, they are!
...Who wouldn't take me seriously?
Photographer
ChristerArt
Posts: 2861
Cambridge, England, United Kingdom
Gretchen wrote:
Who might you be referring to... me or someone else who has posted here?
Explain to me why I should know who Helmut Newton is. How is he going to get me further in the fashion industry? And explain to me how I would have known who he is if I am not a photographer and I have no interest in looking for images of nude women. Gretchen,
I explained this to you once already - he is one of the most successful and influential fashion photograpers who ever lived - he died jan 23, 2004, age 83. He has published many books - adn his work has appeared in every major magazine everwhere! And he didn't just do nude work - he did much more - he did for example an advertising campaign for Absolute Vodka shortly before his death - the images were all black and white images of the Swedish landscape - and stunning!
He worked as a photographer since the 50's - I can't understand why you simply don't google him and do some reading - that way you should have no problems understanding why it is so important that you know who he was and why his work is so important. I told you already some of his prints is selling for more than $200,000 - his book "Sumo" sold originally for $1,000 four years ago- today if you find anyone willing to sell his/her copy - it's sold out - you'll have to pay $3,000 - $5,000 - or more for a single copy. Google it.
Here is an excerpt I just googled:
"Newton was a trailblazer in the fashion photography world, exploring power, gender roles and an icy sexuality in his pictures.
His trademark "Big Nudes" series featured larger-than-life, black-and-white images of women that portray them as dominating the camera rather than as subjects.
Among the beautiful and powerful people Newton has photographed were Paloma Picasso, Pierre Cardin, Naomi Campbell, Jean-Marie Le Pen and Claudia Schiffer.
While Newton also photographed clothed celebrities and nature scenes, he favored photographing women, usually while they wore little more than high heels.
"He was a giant," said Playboy founder Hugh Hefner. "He was a major talent that pushed the boundaries in terms of photography and influenced many, many other photographers in following generations."
"He will be very much missed," Hefner added. "He will be missed."
The coldly erotic imagery often alarmed feminists as well as those with tamer sensibilities.
A hosiery ad he shot, featured on a giant billboard in Times Square for a time, was banned from the side of New York city buses in 1998 because it was deemed to be too racy. It showed a rear-end view of a woman lying face-down, wearing only a pair of stockings. A side view of her bare breast also was visible.
Newton is survived by his wife June, who works under the name Alice Springs. She was also a favorite subject for the photographer. In one 1973 series of photos, she was portrayed as Hitler wearing a cropped mustache with model Jerry Hall posing as Eva Braun. The Newtons had no children."
Photographer
Fotticelli
Posts: 12252
Rockville, Maryland, US
Gretchen wrote:
Those are real questions... I mean, if someone can answer them, they are!
...Who wouldn't take me seriously? People in the business. It makes you look like you don't care about what you do.
Exactly why you need to know who Newton is? Aren't you supposed to help the photographer to create a picture? To know how it's done you learn from people that do it well.
Karolina Kurkova supposedly knows the style and working prefrences of the photographers she works with and adjusts her posing style accordingly.
BTW: I don't particurarily like Newton's style but he was a great photographer/provocateur and did take a couple of pictures that I like.
Model
Gretchen
Posts: 72
Los Angeles, California, US
EAD Productions wrote:
LOL, you haven't heard of Helmut Newton???? GOOGLE it!!!!! C'mon your on a computer. Ford would say that about "tacky" (eye of beholder, I'm not casting judgement to all who read this) glamour photography or leaning more towards "porn", not specifically NUDES. Gretchen wrote:
I know about him now, I looked him up right after I read that comment. I just hadn't heard of him before this. Yes, that's the style I'm talking about. I agree, it is definitely in the eye of the beholder. ...Nobody seems to have read these posts.
Model
Gretchen
Posts: 72
Los Angeles, California, US
Model
ElizabethTullCurtsinger
Posts: 597
Wichita, Kansas, US
You're not comfortable with nudity - and that's fine. Don't shoot it. But at the same time, it's a huge part of this industry - other people do do it, will do it, and will always do it. If you're not comfortable with that 'poping up' now, you'll have to get used to it.
Photographer
EAD Productions
Posts: 197
New York, New York, US
Gretchen wrote:
EAD Productions wrote:
LOL, you haven't heard of Helmut Newton???? GOOGLE it!!!!! C'mon your on a computer. Ford would say that about "tacky" (eye of beholder, I'm not casting judgement to all who read this) glamour photography or leaning more towards "porn", not specifically NUDES. ...Nobody seems to have read these posts. Just an FYI Gretchen, it took you more than one post and mention of Helmut Newton for you to look him up... I believe your first response after hearing his name was "Helmut Newton, I've never heard of him"... we all know you are sitting at a computer writing this, it takes away a tremendous amount of validity to argue a point away and look a name up later in the arguement, then all of the sudden become the authority on him.
By the way, christerart, you're work is outstanding, and I know I would hire you for other than fine art -erotic, just by looking at that....your talent is unarguable in my book 
Model
Gretchen
Posts: 72
Los Angeles, California, US
EAD Productions wrote:
Just an FYI Gretchen, it took you more than one post and mention of Helmut Newton for you to look him up... I believe your first response after hearing his name was "Helmut Newton, I've never heard of him"... we all know you are sitting at a computer writing this, it takes away a tremendous amount of validity to argue a point away and look a name up later in the arguement, then all of the sudden become the authority on him. No it didn't. I looked him up on wikipedia.org first to see what Christerart was talking about before I even said "I haven't heard of him." I only said I hadn't heard of him because this was the first time I've heard his name. That was my first response in my brain. But when I wrote that post I had already read a short bio about him.
But I guess there's really no way to prove what I am saying, is there.
Model
Gretchen
Posts: 72
Los Angeles, California, US
Gregory Garecki wrote:
People in the business. It makes you look like you don't care about what you do.
Exactly why you need to know who Newton is? Aren't you supposed to help the photographer to create a picture? To know how it's done you learn from people that do it well.
Karolina Kurkova supposedly knows the style and working prefrences of the photographers she works with and adjusts her posing style accordingly.
BTW: I don't particurarily like Newton's style but he was a great photographer/provocateur and did take a couple of pictures that I like. Thank you for helping me understand.
Photographer
EAD Productions
Posts: 197
New York, New York, US
Gretchen wrote:
No it didn't. I looked him up on wikipedia.org first to see what Christerart was talking about before I even said "I haven't heard of him." I only said I hadn't heard of him because this was the first time I've heard his name. That was my first response in my brain. But when I wrote that post I had already read a short bio about him.
But I guess there's really no way to prove what I am saying, is there. ok, I now understand  , you meant you hadn't heard of him before, but now you know
Photographer
EAD Productions
Posts: 197
New York, New York, US
Gregory Garecki wrote:
People in the business. It makes you look like you don't care about what you do.
Exactly why you need to know who Newton is? Aren't you supposed to help the photographer to create a picture? To know how it's done you learn from people that do it well.
Karolina Kurkova supposedly knows the style and working prefrences of the photographers she works with and adjusts her posing style accordingly.
BTW: I don't particurarily like Newton's style but he was a great photographer/provocateur and did take a couple of pictures that I like. I've worked with Karolina Kurkova, and you are right, she takes the time to really know what you are looking for, and works with you.
Model
Savanna G
Posts: 27
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
Hey! I was noticing the same thing. To each's own, but I prefer to stay clothed.
Model
Leanon Sidhe
Posts: 8
Portland, Oregon, US
The big question..is nudity art? I believe so. I model mostly semi-nude to full nudes. I always do it for art and I never do anything pornographic.
I believe if someone is going to tear down a group of people and call their work "trash" might want to walk a mile in someone else's shoes. It is not just attacking what you think "morality" is; but also, you are attacking a person and their livelyhood. They put their time into something and mostlikely are very proud of it.
If nudity is trash-then your body is trash. If your body is trash, then you look like shit in the clothing that you are modelling. Nudity is basic. Some may argue that it is where art began.
If you do not like nudes-fine. But studying art (yes that's right, I'm not just some model) I could not call the statue of David "trash". That is just 1 out of many examples and it is not limited to the Greeks. We are what we are, but we are not to be looked down at. I could argue that we are more fearless, but I am not your psychologist.
These are my thoughts. Take them however you want.
Model
Gretchen
Posts: 72
Los Angeles, California, US
Leanon Sidhe wrote:
The big question..is nudity art? I believe so. I model mostly semi-nude to full nudes. I always do it for art and I never do anything pornographic.
I believe if someone is going to tear down a group of people and call their work "trash" might want to walk a mile in someone else's shoes. It is not just attacking what you think "morality" is; but also, you are attacking a person and their livelyhood. They put their time into something and mostlikely are very proud of it.
If nudity is trash-then your body is trash. If your body is trash, then you look like shit in the clothing that you are modelling. Nudity is basic. Some may argue that it is where art began.
If you do not like nudes-fine. But studying art (yes that's right, I'm not just some model) I could not call the statue of David "trash". That is just 1 out of many examples and it is not limited to the Greeks. We are what we are, but we are not to be looked down at. I could argue that we are more fearless, but I am not your psychologist.
These are my thoughts. Take them however you want. Anna of Troy wrote:
What confuses me is that Gretchen is carrying her side of this arguement with a passion, but her Icon is an Implied Nude photo?
exactly which side are you on..
( Anna the photographer realises there are no actual sides, this is a superfluous arguement based on morality and age old issues that have been tested again and again and will continue to do such until a good many people relax, get some air and let people be people, different or not. ) Gretchen wrote:
True there are no sides, just leanings, and those can be obvious. I already mentioned what I consider trash. My leaning is toward fashion and beauty (i.e. makeup and hair.) I also love art, and people have been painting and sculpting nudes for hundreds of years. But again, it's the Playboy and porn and "glamour" styles that I don't like seeing, and it's all over Model Mayhem. Please read all the other posts before posting.
Model
Leanon Sidhe
Posts: 8
Portland, Oregon, US
I do pin-ups. All Playboy isn't spread eagle. I just think you're just using too many generalizations. The lines are blurred in nudity. There is what you like and what you don't...but like I said...Playboy for example, isn't all "fiddling" and crotch shots.
I'm not even a big fan of Playboy.
What I am personally not a fan of, is pornography (if there is a porn star out there..more power to you).
I used the "text book" definition that divides porn from art in photography and film. So what I think is not porn..someone else might.
However, my long comment before this one, was mainly about word choice of "trash" in reference towards someone's livelyhood. I may not like porn..but I'll never call it trash. One man's garbage is another mans treasure.
Isn't it all relative, anyways?
Does this clearify for you?
Model
Gretchen
Posts: 72
Los Angeles, California, US
Leanon Sidhe wrote:
I do pin-ups. All Playboy isn't spread eagle. I just think you're just using too many generalizations. The lines are blurred in nudity. There is what you like and what you don't...but like I said...Playboy for example, isn't all "fiddling" and crotch shots.
I'm not even a big fan of Playboy.
What I am personally not a fan of, is pornography (if there is a porn star out there..more power to you).
I used the "text book" definition that divides porn from art in photography and film. So what I think is not porn..someone else might.
However, my long comment before this one, was mainly about word choice of "trash" in reference towards someone's livelyhood. I may not like porn..but I'll never call it trash. One man's garbage is another mans treasure.
Isn't it all relative, anyways?
Does this clearify for you? Yes it does... these are good points, whether I agree or not. Thank you.
Photographer
Gems of Nature in N Atl
Posts: 1334
North Atlanta, Georgia, US
The real pros I know have several "books" based on different subject matters. That seems to not only solve any potential problems but allows the photographer accentuate the areas he/she wants to focus on.
Photographer
DJS Photo Alabama
Posts: 9
Birmingham, Alabama, US
I will have an opinion on this as soon as you post some pics not done on your digital camera...too many talented photog here to waste time like that.
Photographer
DJS Photo Alabama
Posts: 9
Birmingham, Alabama, US
I will have an opinion on this as soon as you post some pics not done on your digital camera...too many talented photog here to waste time like that.
Photographer
DJS Photo Alabama
Posts: 9
Birmingham, Alabama, US
I will have an opinion on this as soon as you post some pics not done on your digital camera...too many talented photog here to waste time like that.
Model
A BRITT PRO-AM
Posts: 7840
CARDIFF BY THE SEA, California, US
dont worry
enjoy LA and college etc
When you become an adult, or if you ever become a model, people will probably take you more seriously.
The syle of nude seems to be the issue with other posters here as CLASSY nude art work is seldom a problem in a models career (these days) and should DEFINATELY only be done if YOU are enthusiastic about it.
And, who knows...When you get older and slim down you may look great nude and change your mind!
Best wishes
BRITT
Model
k duske
Posts: 106
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Brit Small wrote:
So I've been feeling out the site and I think its great, but Im having an issue with all the nudes. It seems like everyone here is shooting or posing nude and I'm not comfortable with all the nudity just poping up; you know? Am I wrong? grow up you were born nude almost every one of my friends have seen me nude (plus i dono 200 misc ppl) once it has been done enough it becomes de sexualized and you relize it is truely natural and thats what it is if you are un comfortable being nude thats ok dont post nudes but dont comment as if it is a bad thing. i am sure a few ppl creep through this site for a good wank but most are mature about it and are confident enough in there bodies that showing thers and seeing others is not problimatic
i am sorry if i seam to be mean i dont mean to be but modeling, art etc are not concervative things
Model
N K
Posts: 26
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
well, it does feel like a hookup bar for exhibisionists and perverts from time to time...
It's not that im offended by it, it's just that sometimes "artistic nudes" is really just an excuse to take pictures of naked girls. Most of it really doesnt look like art... but then again what's art?
As I've said in another post, I've never seen so many people pretend to be doing studies of the naked female body.
Photographer
00siris
Posts: 19182
New York, New York, US
Terry Breedlove wrote:
This is the world of art and photography and modeling get used to it. Echo
Photographer
ZKWC
Posts: 548
Malibu, California, US
Gretchen wrote:
I know about him now, I looked him up right after I read that comment. I just hadn't heard of him before this. Yes, that's the style I'm talking about. I agree, it is definitely in the eye of the beholder. Gretchen... Then why are you nude in your avatar? Any model not familiar with Helmut Newton sure has a lot of studying to do!
Models... do yourselves a favor. STUDY a bit about photography and why all these super models are super, it's because of the photographers. Know who they are. I found out who they were when I was a model and started modeling for them, NUDE! books, magazines, you name it. MY agency LOVED it!
Photographer
J C ModeFotografie
Posts: 14718
Los Angeles, California, US
Brit Small wrote:
So I've been feeling out the site and I think its great, but Im having an issue with all the nudes. It seems like everyone here is shooting or posing nude and I'm not comfortable with all the nudity just poping up; you know? Am I wrong? Why don't you move to one of those Middle Eastern countries where women are forced to wear head-to-foot sack-shaped cover-alls called "burkhas" and where looking a woman in the eye can be considered rape?
JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER
Model
Shauna Carlo
Posts: 367
Boston, Massachusetts, US
Gretchen wrote:
You're not wrong. I totally agree. My friend who is a photographer brought his book into an agency, and there were two other photographers there to show the agency their books. My friend caught a glance at their books and saw all this nudity and crap, and the agency dismissed the photographers right in front of him! My friend, whose book was clean and beautiful, caught their attention as potentially someone to work with.
In the real world of fashion, all that nude stuff is trash to the important people. So true. Nudity can often hurt even a model when it comes to agencies.
To the OP. Don't do anything you don't feel comfortable doing. There are many models who will not do nudes whether artistic or not. It's often warned against.
Model
Jackalin
Posts: 485
Holiday, Florida, US
Brit Small wrote:
So I've been feeling out the site and I think its great, but Im having an issue with all the nudes. It seems like everyone here is shooting or posing nude and I'm not comfortable with all the nudity just poping up; you know? Am I wrong? Please do not fret there are many of us here that do not model nude. If you look at my port you won't find one nude photo. The kind of work you take as a model is completely up to you. You take the jobs that YOU are comfortable with as it will show in your work. If you aren't comfortable you won't get good photos any ways. So be true to your self and it will all work out. Best of luck to you and welcome to MM!
Photographer
YeagerVision
Posts: 175
Los Angeles, California, US
>>So true. Nudity can often hurt even a model when it comes to agencies.
To the OP. Don't do anything you don't feel comfortable doing. There are many models who will not do nudes whether artistic or not. It's often warned against.
Photographer
Bart Ruzik
Posts: 51
New York, New York, US
hey-
best piece of advice
tell everyone straight out that you won't do nudes!!
I have seen very tasteful stuff out here besides the nude (and weird !!) stuff
Keep trying but always be faithful to yourself and what you want out of a shoot
Hope I helped!!
BART
|
, you meant you hadn't heard of him before, but now you know