Brit Small wrote:
So I've been feeling out the site and I think its great, but Im having an issue with all the nudes. It seems like everyone here is shooting or posing nude and I'm not comfortable with all the nudity just poping up; you know? Am I wrong?

Don't know if you're wrong - that's a judgement only *you* can make for yourself  - but - here are *my* thoughts about your posting:

Most on this site do *not* pose for nudes.

If you are not comfortable with the site - then perhaps you simply shouldn't be here. To a lot of people - as myself - nudity is a very natural way of life - and if *you* are not comfortable with it - and can't seem to be able to avoid it - then you have to make a choice - stay - and if an image you are not comfortable with pops up, hit the return button and close your eyes until the offending image is gone - or - stay away.

And - you are actually underage - and all *nude* images on this site are clearly marked *18+* - so it should be fairly simple for you to avoid them...

Brit Small wrote:
So I've been feeling out the site and I think its great, but Im having an issue with all the nudes. It seems like everyone here is shooting or posing nude and I'm not comfortable with all the nudity just poping up; you know? Am I wrong?

You're not wrong.  I totally agree.  My friend who is a photographer brought his book into an agency, and there were two other photographers there to show the agency their books.  My friend caught a glance at their books and saw all this nudity and crap, and the agency dismissed the photographers right in front of him!  My friend, whose book was clean and beautiful, caught their attention as potentially someone to work with.

In the real world of fashion, all that nude stuff is trash to the important people.

Gretchen wrote:

You're not wrong.  I totally agree.  My friend who is a photographer brought his book into an agency, and there were two other photographers there to show the agency their books.  My friend caught a glance at their books and saw all this nudity and crap, and the agency dismissed the photographers right in front of him!  My friend, whose book was clean and beautiful, caught their attention as potentially someone to work with.

In the real world of fashion, all that nude stuff is trash to the important people.

Really?

OK, how come then that one of the worlds most well known fashion photographers - Helmut Newton - why does his prints sell for hundreds of thousands of dollars? And why did all the world's best, biggest, most influential magazins all over the world, - like Vogue - he's dead now - feature his work for decades?

And, how come I then are hired by corporations such as Motorola to photograph their executives? And, The Smithsonian, NCTA, the National Council of the Traditional Arts and others have bought images/prints/hired me for projects?

"Trash to important people" - who? you? The agency?

You make silly statements, girl. What agency are we talking about here? In Podunk, NJ?

Most well known worldwide agencies are very comfortable with nude or erotic images because the Eurtopean magazines in particular use images that are simply that way - lots of nude and erotic images. And most well know fashion photographers are also well known for their nudes - often of celebrities.

Just because YOU are not comfortable with nudity - don't take that out on those who are - and don't make silly statements like the one above - it only tells the rest of us that you are very immature.

Gretchen wrote:

You're not wrong.  I totally agree.  My friend who is a photographer brought his book into an agency, and there were two other photographers there to show the agency their books.  My friend caught a glance at their books and saw all this nudity and crap, and the agency dismissed the photographers right in front of him!  My friend, whose book was clean and beautiful, caught their attention as potentially someone to work with.

In the real world of fashion, all that nude stuff is trash to the important people.

Since when does fashion dictate what was acceptable for me or any other photographer to shoot. I don't need to worry about them turning my book down because I wont be showing it to them in the first place.

Barron C wrote:
WHEN DID THE NAKED HUMAN BODY BECOME THE BATTLEGROUND FOR PURITANICAL MORALISTIC BORES WORLDWIDE IF NUDITY WAS SO REPUGNANT IN THE EYES OF THE CREATOR WHY DO WE ALL POSSESS A NUDE BODY OF OUR OWN OR DID THE DEVIL ISSUE THEM.

SOME BASIC FORUM RULES


[1] No SHOUTING (Posting in all capital letters) Especially in thread titles. It's hard to read and just plain rude and annoying.

Gretchen wrote:
You're not wrong.  I totally agree.  My friend who is a photographer brought his book into an agency, and there were two other photographers there to show the agency their books.  My friend caught a glance at their books and saw all this nudity and crap, and the agency dismissed the photographers right in front of him!  My friend, whose book was clean and beautiful, caught their attention as potentially someone to work with.

In the real world of fashion, all that nude stuff is trash to the important people.

you are absolutely wrong about this gretchen. All established fashion photographers do/ have shot nudes. #1 it the human form, you cannot get any more natural. #2 it is a good means to compare actual photography of people because you don't have the unfair advantage of better fashion. #3 the human form can be seen beautiful no matter the form (big,small, skinny, heavy, etc). .....#4 herb ritz, avedon, penn, mario testino, mario sorrenti, steven klein, steven meisel, micheal thompson, helmut newton,terry richardson, mert and marcus, ines and vinood,etc, etc, either have books out of nudes or many published nudes (all top fashion photographers #5 one of most popular magazines within fashion circle for 8 years was DUTCH, was basically all nudes, or close to it
Now, for your friend who was in agency, maybe the other photographers were BAD and had alot of nudes.

Brit Small wrote:
So I've been feeling out the site and I think its great, but Im having an issue with all the nudes. It seems like everyone here is shooting or posing nude and I'm not comfortable with all the nudity just poping up; you know? Am I wrong?

Then don't look, we were here first.

ChristerArt wrote:
Really?

OK, how come then that one of the worlds most well known fashion photographers - Helmut Newton - why does his prints sell for hundreds of thousands of dollars? And why did all the world's best, biggest, most influential magazins all over the world, - like Vogue - he's dead now - feature his work for decades?

And, how come I then are hired by corporations such as Motorola to photograph their executives? And, The Smithsonian, NCTA, the National Council of the Traditional Arts and others have bought images/prints/hired me for projects?

"Trash to important people" - who? you? The agency?

You make silly statements, girl. What agency are we talking about here? In Podunk, NJ?

Most well known worldwide agencies are very comfortable with nude or erotic images because the Eurtopean magazines in particular use images that are simply that way - lots of nude and erotic images. And most well know fashion photographers are also well known for their nudes - often of celebrities.

Just because YOU are not comfortable with nudity - don't take that out on those who are - and don't make silly statements like the one above - it only tells the rest of us that you are very immature.

I'm sorry if I offended you.  I was just agreeing with this girl, and telling her what I know has happened; why I agree.

As for Helmut Newton-I've never heard of him.  But I am aware that although American media is very censored, European media and other very high fashion magazines do show mild nudity.  But it isn't porn-style, not even Playboy-style.  Those are the styles I'm considering as trash--trash to designers and other fashion clients, agents looking for photographers to help build their models' books, etc.

The agency my friend visited wasn't in New Jersey.  It was Ford Models, Los Angeles.

Gretchen wrote:

I'm sorry if I offended you.  I was just agreeing with this girl, and telling her what I know has happened; why I agree.

As for Helmut Newton-I've never heard of him.  But I am aware that although American media is very censored, European media and other very high fashion magazines do show mild nudity.  But it isn't porn-style, not even Playboy-style.  Those are the styles I'm considering as trash--trash to designers and other fashion clients, agents looking for photographers to help build their models' books, etc.

The agency my friend visited wasn't in New Jersey.  It was Ford Models, Los Angeles.

LOL, you haven't heard of Helmut Newton???? GOOGLE it!!!!! C'mon your on a computer. Ford would say that about "tacky" (eye of beholder, I'm not casting judgement to all who read this) glamour  photography or leaning more towards "porn", not specifically NUDES.

ChristerArt wrote:

Really?

OK, how come then that one of the worlds most well known fashion photographers - Helmut Newton - why does his prints sell for hundreds of thousands of dollars? And why did all the world's best, biggest, most influential magazins all over the world, - like Vogue - he's dead now - feature his work for decades?

And, how come I then are hired by corporations such as Motorola to photograph their executives? And, The Smithsonian, NCTA, the National Council of the Traditional Arts and others have bought images/prints/hired me for projects?

"Trash to important people" - who? you? The agency?

You make silly statements, girl. What agency are we talking about here? In Podunk, NJ?

Most well known worldwide agencies are very comfortable with nude or erotic images because the Eurtopean magazines in particular use images that are simply that way - lots of nude and erotic images. And most well know fashion photographers are also well known for their nudes - often of celebrities.

Just because YOU are not comfortable with nudity - don't take that out on those who are - and don't make silly statements like the one above - it only tells the rest of us that you are very immature.

Actually, I think it's you that is wrong - at least 99% of the time.  There are exceptions, and you've quoted one, but most photographers who photograph nudes as well as other stuff keep at least two books, and make sure they use the right ones for the right jobs.

I'm based in the UK, which has a reasonably liberal attitude to nudity, although not as liberal as mainland Europe, and I photograph nudes.  Okay, I don't do fashion and commercial stuff, but I have had experience of agencies and bookers.  A couple of good nudes are acceptable in a book, but no more.

It's not a prudery thing, and I have to disagree with the OP about her basic premise, but, to be honest, a lot of nude photography is only average when it comes to technical merit or creativity, and relies on titilation for impact.  An experienced booker can see past this.

EAD Productions wrote:
LOL, you haven't heard of Helmut Newton???? GOOGLE it!!!!! C'mon your on a computer. Ford would say that about "tacky" (eye of beholder, I'm not casting judgement to all who read this) glamour  photography or leaning more towards "porn", not specifically NUDES.

I know about him now, I looked him up right after I read that comment.  I just hadn't heard of him before this.  Yes, that's the style I'm talking about.  I agree, it is definitely in the eye of the beholder.

Brit Small wrote:
So I've been feeling out the site and I think its great, but Im having an issue with all the nudes. It seems like everyone here is shooting or posing nude and I'm not comfortable with all the nudity just poping up; you know? Am I wrong?

Ever since artists began putting a quill or brush to parchment or canvas, nudity has been a popular subject. The question is whether it is gratuitous or artistic. There is nothing wrong with the simplicity of nudity be it male or female.... It can be very beautiful.

Very early in media advertising, circa the earliest of printing presses, someone figured out sex sells, be it glamour or nude. The concept is most prevalent today and has become mainstream. Take a look through any popular magazine and you will see very provocative glamour shots in advertisements and you will also see many implied nudes for mainstream products by very reputable companies.

I took a look at your profile and see that you are 17 years old, this is a serious issue.... Something that you should cautious of and discuss with your parents.

Like it or not, nudity has been and will always be a part of the world of art and in advertising.

The upside is you can choose not to view or participate. You set the limits you are comfortable with.

As far as nudity on MM, I find it is much more reserved and not nearly as prevalent as it is on other online model / photographer portfolio sites.......

Hope this helps........

Best, Joe

RED Photographic wrote:
Actually, I think it's you that is wrong - at least 99% of the time.  There are exceptions, and you've quoted one, but most photographers who photograph nudes as well as other stuff keep at least two books, and make sure they use the right ones for the right jobs.

I'm based in the UK, which has a reasonably liberal attitude to nudity, although not as liberal as mainland Europe, and I photograph nudes.  Okay, I don't do fashion and commercial stuff, but I have had experience of agencies and bookers.  A couple of good nudes are acceptable in a book, but no more.

It's not a prudery thing, and I have to disagree with the OP about her basic premise, but, to be honest, a lot of nude photography is only average when it comes to technical merit or creativity, and relies on titilation for impact.  An experienced booker can see past this.

all I have to say is TERRY RICHARDSON.

EAD Productions wrote:

all I have to say is TERRY RICHARDSON.

Yeah, I know, and I could probably add a few myself.  But there are thousands of nameless photographers out there who are trying to sell themselves using average quality nudes in average books, and overlook the lack of merit in their work, believing that nudity, in itself, will get them by.  It doesn't work.

Geary Enterprises wrote:

Ever since artists began putting a quill or brush to parchment or canvas, nudity has been a popular subject. The question is whether it is gratuitous or artistic. There is nothing wrong with the simplicity of nudity be it male or female.... It can be very beautiful.

Very early in media advertising, circa the earliest of printing presses, someone figured out sex sells, be it glamour or nude. The concept is most prevalent today and has become mainstream. Take a look through any popular magazine and you will see very provocative glamour shots in advertisements and you will also see many implied nudes for mainstream products by very reputable companies.

I took a look at your profile and see that you are 17 years old, this is a serious issue.... Something that you should cautious of and discuss with your parents.

Like it or not, nudity has been and will always be a part of the world of art and in advertising.

The upside is you can choose not to view or participate. You set the limits you are comfortable with.

As far as nudity on MM, I find it is much more reserved and not nearly as prevalent as it is on other online model / photographer portfolio sites.......

Hope this helps........

Best, Joe

An after thought...

I have two separate print portfolios that I show to models interested in working with me, one non nude and one with nudes. I work with models strictly at their level of comfort and interest.

I have had many models that are not interested or comfortable with shooting nudes ask to see my nude portfolio. When I ask why, the reply comes back every time "If you can shoot quality and artistic nudes, you can shoot anything well"...........

Gretchen wrote:
[In the real world of fashion, all that nude stuff is trash to the important people.

So how do you explain all those all those famous fashion models posing nude? Hard to name ones who don"t.

Gretchen wrote:

I'm sorry if I offended you.  I was just agreeing with this girl, and telling her what I know has happened; why I agree.

As for Helmut Newton-I've never heard of him.  But I am aware that although American media is very censored, European media and other very high fashion magazines do show mild nudity.  But it isn't porn-style, not even Playboy-style.  Those are the styles I'm considering as trash--trash to designers and other fashion clients, agents looking for photographers to help build their models' books, etc.

The agency my friend visited wasn't in New Jersey.  It was Ford Models, Los Angeles.

Helmut also shot for Playboy! And ever major Fashion mag on the planet. Now if it was Ford Commercial Department....

RED Photographic wrote:

Yeah, I know, and I could probably add a few myself.  But there are thousands of nameless photographers out there who are trying to sell themselves using average quality nudes in average books, and overlook the lack of merit in their work, believing that nudity, in itself, will get them by.  It doesn't work.

I agree whole heartedly... but how ridiculous was the first girls blog?

Mike Walker wrote:
Helmut also shot for Playboy! And ever major Fashion mag on the planet. Now if it was Ford Commercial Department....

Upon further research... http://www.salon.com/07/features/helmut.html

Gretchen wrote:

Upon further research... http://www.salon.com/07/features/helmut.html

He was still shooting nudes when he died? nude books of his are still being realeased? But then Helmut was very good at trying to shock people in general. His anti fashion is more the rule today that when he was more of an individualist. Probably what he was lamenting in the excerpted article you quoted. Now...who would you say are the topte 10 fashion models. Let's see how long it takes to find at least topless photos of them all!
Mike

EAD Productions wrote:
I will leave y'all tonight with one last comment... the best models are the uninhibited ones. (all good photographers will agree with this)...

I agree - although I might be the exception that proves the rule.

Gretchen wrote:

Upon further research... http://www.salon.com/07/features/helmut.html

Can't leave it alone Gretchen ?  LOL.... anyway, EVERY artist get's bored with what they have done for years.... the conservative ones turn racy and vice versa... usually it doesn't take them their whole career though. I think you should do more research on a few more photographers, you've just hit the tip of the iceburg (and I'm not only talking about nudes). If you like and want to model, you should learn the great models and photographers, and know the great designers and fashion directors (this is a big one FYI...even your local ones...they have big decision on hiring models). You will impress everyone as opposed to now becoming the Helmut Newton fact finder late in the game.

EAD Productions wrote:
Can't leave it alone Gretchen ?  LOL.... anyway, EVERY artist get's bored with what they have done for years.... the conservative ones turn racy and vice versa... usually it doesn't take them their whole career though. I think you should do more research on a few more photographers, you've just hit the tip of the iceburg (and I'm not only talking about nudes). If you like and want to model, you should learn the great models and photographers, and know the great designers and fashion directors (this is a big one FYI...even your local ones...they have big decision on hiring models). You will impress everyone as opposed to now becoming the Helmut Newton fact finder late in the game.

Hey, you're the one who was about to leave!  Haha I'm not saying anything about it I was just putting it out there.

Well you're right, I've been pretty worried about my look, and whether or not it would fit in with the demands of today, but I should know more names of photographers and fashion directors, I just don't know where to start.  Pretty much the only studying I've done is going to the library reading up on how to launch a career in modeling/how to become a successful model, and looking at high-fashion magazines at the bookstore.  But I can't afford to buy the magazines because I'm just a college student!  Boohoo.  Any suggestions so I can start knowing what I'm talking about? ;-)
I've actually considered taking a photography class at my college as an elective... I thought it might help my modeling.

Anna of Troy wrote:
What confuses me is that Gretchen is carrying her side of this arguement with a passion, but her Icon is an Implied Nude photo?

exactly which side are you on..

( Anna the photographer realises there are no actual sides, this is a superfluous arguement based on morality and age old issues that have been tested again and again and will continue to do such until a good many people relax, get some air and let people be people, different or not. )

True there are no sides, just leanings, and those can be obvious.  I already mentioned what I consider trash.  My leaning is toward fashion and beauty (i.e. makeup and hair.)  I also love art, and people have been painting and sculpting nudes for hundreds of years.  But again, it's the Playboy and porn and "glamour" styles that I don't like seeing, and it's all over Model Mayhem.

Gretchen wrote:

You're not wrong.  I totally agree.  My friend who is a photographer brought his book into an agency, and there were two other photographers there to show the agency their books.  My friend caught a glance at their books and saw all this nudity and crap, and the agency dismissed the photographers right in front of him!  My friend, whose book was clean and beautiful, caught their attention as potentially someone to work with.

In the real world of fashion, all that nude stuff is trash to the important people.

Ok well for those of us fine art nude models its not trash, its art. If you don't know what you are talking about you shouldn't talk.

Jerry Nemeth wrote:
You don't have to do nudes!  Do what you are comfortable with doing.  There are a lot of great photos out there that aren't nudes.

No one is saying anyone has to do nudes, it's just out there. And being critical of people's professional work while having webcam pics isn't impressive.

Claire Elizabeth wrote:

No one is saying anyone has to do nudes, it's just out there. And being critical of people's professional work while having webcam pics isn't impressive.

You're right!  I didn't check her posts.