BridgitC-Makeup Artist wrote:
Ok....This is going to be a good one...
Why is it that folks get so mad when someone doesn't agree to a TFP...Especially if it something that can't be used  and/or the work or model isn't that great? Not to say that I am the BOMB, but I have built my book and reputation up to a decent level and want to take it higher...So why should I agree to do something that will not benefit me for free!

Don't be shy, give your opinion.....

Bridgit,
You are so right! I get asked to do tfp and "testing" all of the time. I am still not sure what is going through their mind when they look at my book, then turn around and ask me to work with a midiocre model with no expierence and tell me the shots will in taken in their "studio" which happens to also be the apartment they share with 3 roomates!...Not going to happen. You should never agree to do tfp for something that won't benefit you, simple as that. TFP is not TFFREE. And by the way Bridgit, I think you are the BOMB

BridgitC-Makeup Artist wrote:
Ok....This is going to be a good one...
Why is it that folks get so mad when someone doesn't agree to a TFP...Especially if it something that can't be used  and/or the work or model isn't that great? Not to say that I am the BOMB, but I have built my book and reputation up to a decent level and want to take it higher...So why should I agree to do something that will not benefit me for free!

Don't be shy, give your opinion.....

They get mad 'cause the only acceptable answer is YES!

Charissa the Artist wrote:

Bridgit,
You are so right! I get asked to do tfp and "testing" all of the time. I am still not sure what is going through their mind when they look at my book, then turn around and ask me to work with a midiocre model with no expierence and tell me the shots will in taken in their "studio" which happens to also be the apartment they share with 3 roomates!...Not going to happen. You should never agree to do tfp for something that won't benefit you, simple as that. TFP is not TFFREE. And by the way Bridgit, I think you are the BOMB

Charissa the Artist wrote:

Bridgit,
You are so right! I get asked to do tfp and "testing" all of the time. I am still not sure what is going through their mind when they look at my book, then turn around and ask me to work with a midiocre model with no expierence and tell me the shots will in taken in their "studio" which happens to also be the apartment they share with 3 roomates!...Not going to happen. You should never agree to do tfp for something that won't benefit you, simple as that. TFP is not TFFREE. And by the way Bridgit, I think you are the BOMB

Charissa the Artist wrote:

Bridgit,
You are so right! I get asked to do tfp and "testing" all of the time. I am still not sure what is going through their mind when they look at my book, then turn around and ask me to work with a midiocre model with no expierence and tell me the shots will in taken in their "studio" which happens to also be the apartment they share with 3 roomates!...Not going to happen. You should never agree to do tfp for something that won't benefit you, simple as that. TFP is not TFFREE. And by the way Bridgit, I think you are the BOMB

Nora_Neko wrote:
well it kinda sucks to be let down.I normally don't get mad just bummed out.

When the person the photographer offers the TFP to in assistance and they have a hand full of semi pro or amateur taken

phone camera pics or back alley heavily stamped with ONE photographer, No experience, no web site, no Gym membership fees,
etc. etc and a tfp isn't good enough as they think there to special and deserve paid compensation.

Most likley this is why many professionals who think a certain individual has good potential might benefit each others portfolios
only to be frustrated with " Im only doing paid assingments at this time?

humor me as you most likley will the see same people fishing for hours days and weeks in the shout box going no were fast flat

Sincerely
Ron Blake

BridgitC-Makeup Artist wrote:
Ok....This is going to be a good one...
Why is it that folks get so mad when someone doesn't agree to a TFP...Especially if it something that can't be used  and/or the work or model isn't that great? Not to say that I am the BOMB, but I have built my book and reputation up to a decent level and want to take it higher...So why should I agree to do something that will not benefit me for free!

Don't be shy, give your opinion.....

ego maybe ....

Far West Imaging wrote:
I agree with you too.  It is YOUR choice, and they are REQUESTING.  You should be able to choose.  Maybe the easy way is to just say you don't have time right now and then never be able to sync schedules until it is forgotten.  But you shouldn't have to do that.

Yep

so the better and more beneficial decision  even if travel expense was offered is to not have sincerely built your portfolio, expanding your networking and horizons with opening a new door in opportunity and to sit in the shout box screaming for paid work for weeks?

If the Model has proved themselves of being worthy of a paid session or only working in  a variety of higher quality photographers

then a No to the offer would be understandable from a less talented new photographer.



Sincerely
Ron Blake

BridgitC-Makeup Artist wrote:
Why is it that folks get so mad when someone doesn't agree to a TFP...

Some of us are limited to TFP, so the unwillingness to work that way sounds to us like a door slamming!

DawnElizabeth Moderator wrote:
Well, I like TFP, because it allows me to build on my skill. However, if I need a make-up artist, I will ask if they would consider TFP. If not and I can afford the rate, I will pay. It never hurts to ask. But why people get mad at a no is beyond me.

What gets me, is that some make-up and hair stylists get offended when they are asked. It's just a question. Personally, I've never experienced that attitude, because I guess there is a way to ask so you don't offend the talent of these creative individuals. But I have seen where others have been blasted because they asked if a stylist or make-up artist would consider working with them and a model TFP to build their books.

If you don't do TFP, then you don't do it. It may hurt a feeling or two, but no one has a right to get upset over it. SO, no worries.

worth more then a TFP?

not this photographer 




I am 20 years old. I wear a size 6.5 shoe. I am getting experienced in modeling. I have done  a few photo shoots now, but my professional pictures would not upload onto here for some reason, sorry. I was a cheerleader for 6 years when I was in school. I now go to cosmetology school. I love to party! I like to travel, and I like to do local shoots.

DawnElizabeth Moderator wrote:
Well, I like TFP, because it allows me to build on my skill. However, if I need a make-up artist, I will ask if they would consider TFP. If not and I can afford the rate, I will pay. It never hurts to ask. But why people get mad at a no is beyond me.

What gets me, is that some make-up and hair stylists get offended when they are asked. It's just a question. Personally, I've never experienced that attitude, because I guess there is a way to ask so you don't offend the talent of these creative individuals. But I have seen where others have been blasted because they asked if a stylist or make-up artist would consider working with them and a model TFP to build their books.

If you don't do TFP, then you don't do it. It may hurt a feeling or two, but no one has a right to get upset over it. SO, no worries.

Well put! TFP has to work for all parties involved. If someone feels the work won't enhance their book, they shouldn't accept the job. I do feel the kit fee should be covered whether it's a paid shoot or TFP.

BridgitC-Makeup Artist wrote:
Ok....This is going to be a good one...
Why is it that folks get so mad when someone doesn't agree to a TFP...Especially if it something that can't be used  and/or the work or model isn't that great? Not to say that I am the BOMB, but I have built my book and reputation up to a decent level and want to take it higher...So why should I agree to do something that will not benefit me for free!

Don't be shy, give your opinion.....

heheehehe Bridget started some shhh. LOL

Girl.. I have noooo idea why folks get upset. I mean, if it's not profitable to my book, why should I have to, well feel obligated to? I used to say that if the quality of their work cannot meet or beat my current photos, don't ask. However, I thought I was being bitchy, so I just said I am not accepting TFP. LOL For some reason or another people, 99.999% of the time models, always seem to ask me to do TFP. Styling costs money. No matter if I pull it or whatever. I may have to have it shipped to me, dry cleaned, whatever.. So, TFP is a no no.

Lastly.. the part that makes me livid.. The models that email me asking to work with them, because I NEED their look! I mean.. uh.. how arrogant. I don't even email anyone saying that they NEED my style. That's a mess! If it was Tyra, Naomi, Tyson, Giselle.. I would do it. However, I'm not your Momma. You're not the cutest thing in the world to me... so I probably don't NEED their look. LOL

Okay.. back to being the nice Camela. hahaha

DawnElizabeth Moderator wrote:
Well, I like TFP, because it allows me to build on my skill. However, if I need a make-up artist, I will ask if they would consider TFP. If not and I can afford the rate, I will pay. It never hurts to ask. But why people get mad at a no is beyond me.





This isn't only for you, but everyone who ask for tfp BEFORE they ask for rates...I'm not only speaking for myself, but please ask for rates before you ask for a freebie. If someone is interested in your project/look they may offer it to you or maybe offer some form of a discount.

SAY IT AGAIN...STYLING COST MONEY.

Daguerre wrote:
"Just think of it this way...Cindy Crawford shot tfp and that is how she got on the map..."

Its not likely that Cindy did tfp.  Professional Model Agencies Test with professional photographers, most of whom do not do tfp.

She truly did and I was told by a once top photographer and it was listed on site somewhere and also on a modeling show on tv...

CamelaC wrote:

heheehehe Bridget started some shhh. LOL

Girl.. I have noooo idea why folks get upset. I mean, if it's not profitable to my book, why should I have to, well feel obligated to? I used to say that if the quality of their work cannot meet or beat my current photos, don't ask. However, I thought I was being bitchy, so I just said I am not accepting TFP. LOL For some reason or another people, 99.999% of the time models, always seem to ask me to do TFP. Styling costs money. No matter if I pull it or whatever. I may have to have it shipped to me, dry cleaned, whatever.. So, TFP is a no no.

Lastly.. the part that makes me livid.. The models that email me asking to work with them, because I NEED their look! I mean.. uh.. how arrogant. I don't even email anyone saying that they NEED my style. That's a mess! If it was Tyra, Naomi, Tyson, Giselle.. I would do it. However, I'm not your Momma. You're not the cutest thing in the world to me... so I probably don't NEED their look. LOL

Okay.. back to being the nice Camela. hahaha

Keyronn wrote:

Well put! TFP has to work for all parties involved. If someone feels the work won't enhance their book, they shouldn't accept the job. I do feel the kit fee should be covered whether it's a paid shoot or TFP.

BridgitC-Makeup Artist wrote:
Thank You Charissa, and the same to you BOMB:)

It's probably just the feeling of rejection...but I do think that we can be a little less loose with the term "mediocre model." I would look at a model as a canvas, and it's not about what they have done with others it's about what you think you could do with them. This is art and it is expression. Models, to make-up artists and stylists, should be like a blank canvas ...It is in my pure Opinion that;too many look at what other make-up artists have done or what other stylists have done or photographers...to rate the potential of a model.What happended to pure creativity. True potential is not so evident and has to be envoked with creativity. One the other end being selective is absolutely needed when dealing with location and things like that because there are instances where a person can find themselves in someones apartment/room, But we should be inquisitive and make sure we have all information going into it.

Lafayette

rp_photo wrote:

Some of us are limited to TFP, so the unwillingness to work that way sounds to us like a door slamming!

And, if all the photographers and models "BridgitC-Makeup Artist" worked with in the past, had her attitude and decided not to stoop down and work at her level to help build her skills and experience up...well, she'd be mad too. Lol.

It goes both ways.

BridgitC-Makeup Artist wrote:
Ok....This is going to be a good one...
Why is it that folks get so mad when someone doesn't agree to a TFP...Especially if it something that can't be used  and/or the work or model isn't that great? Not to say that I am the BOMB, but I have built my book and reputation up to a decent level and want to take it higher...So why should I agree to do something that will not benefit me for free!

Don't be shy, give your opinion.....

Why buy the cow when the milk is free???
Unfortunately, so many stylists and MUAs do TFPs to get the "experience" a shot at a tear sheet, networking or they will use you again for pay, portfolio-worthy pics, or credit... so it has dropped our real value.

I've done TFPs hoping for the above and a photog gave me low res pics, never received promised credit or kit fee, didn't get call backs on paying gigs (why should they -- they can get it for free), etc... sooooo, the only TFPs accepted are where I am WOW'd by the photog's work or the model has that look I'm building, where the concept is a cool challenge, and/or where I've developed a prior relationship.

**Not to say that all TFPs work that way... I've been paid when I didn't expect it quite a few times, and I previously had agreed to donate my time.

But, as long as the milk is free.... they don't need to buy that d@#$ cow. Almost like a dating ritual... he asked you out, bought dinner and now expects favors and when you don't he gets mad...

Hey! It's only MY opinion

Wild Horse Photography wrote:

And, if all the photographers and models "BridgitC-Makeup Artist" worked with in the past, had her attitude and decided not to stoop down and work at her level to help build her skills and experience up...well, she'd be mad too. Lol.

It goes both ways.

sure thing

I will have my people call your people fax over the tfp agreement for review send the limo and escort

TFP = wast of time

Wild Horse Photography wrote:

And, if all the photographers and models "BridgitC-Makeup Artist" worked with in the past, had her attitude and decided not to stoop down and work at her level to help build her skills and experience up...well, she'd be mad too. Lol.

It goes both ways.

I agree !!!! well spoken!!!!

Lafayette wrote:

It's probably just the feeling of rejection...but I do think that we can be a little less loose with the term "mediocre model." I would look at a model as a canvas, and it's not about what they have done with others it's about what you think you could do with them. This is art and it is expression. Models, to make-up artists and stylists, should be like a blank canvas ...It is in my pure Opinion that;too many look at what other make-up artists have done or what other stylists have done or photographers...to rate the potential of a model.What happended to pure creativity. True potential is not so evident and has to be envoked with creativity. One the other end being selective is absolutely needed when dealing with location and things like that because there are instances where a person can find themselves in someones apartment/room, But we should be inquisitive and make sure we have all information going into it.

Lafayette

Lafayette wrote:

I agree !!!! well spoken!!!!

Thanks. I thought I'd just add this to my original post, because I don't condone "getting mad". A person that's denied help can choose to get mad. That's one way to handle it. Most people get discouraged when they feel they are not getting the support they need. Out of these people, there is the percentage that will choose to be determined and find ways to get the kind of support they need. This is the behavior I personally choose and condone.

T.Alexander wrote:
Bridgit I hear you. Its like this, there is a point where everyone has to pay their dues, after you have reached a certian status or achieved a certain level of work it must be realized that your work has true value. Now we as artist realize our value, but clearly there are some ignorant people out there. (We all know 2 or 3 if not more)

If a model is looking through your portfolio and sees that your stuff looks like NOTHING they have ever achieved, or better yet they are 5 foot nothing with HIGH FASHION DREAMS why must they continue to hound you like they are the best thing going? I dont mean to sound cocky in the least but after I produce a certain calibre of work, why do you think I want to take a few steps backwards and do some bull? I mean really.

These people are going to have to learn that quality cost. Nothing in this world is free and if you really want to step your game up you have to pay to play. That is the bottom line.

I also think some of these people have a false sense of reality. (ie my 5 foot 0 high fashion diva) One photographer or someone in the industry has blown up their heads so they think everyone else should do the same. I'm no ones groupie.

I could go on with this one forever, but the bottom line is IF YOU "LOVE" SOMEONES WORK PLEASE RESPECT IT AND ATLEAST ASK THEIR RATES BEFORE YOU ASK IF THEY DO TFP. Hell, if they want to use you for a project or tfp, let them find you if you are so "great".

Just my .10!

Aiight Tanisha!! I'll add .10 to yours!!

Ditto... That's our .20!

Ron B Blake wrote:

worth more then a TFP?

not this photographer 




I am 20 years old. I wear a size 6.5 shoe. I am getting experienced in modeling. I have done  a few photo shoots now, but my professional pictures would not upload onto here for some reason, sorry. I was a cheerleader for 6 years when I was in school. I now go to cosmetology school. I love to party! I like to travel, and I like to do local shoots.

Huh?

I never said that someone wasn't worth the TFP...Actually, I don't know why you quoted me and then wrote what you did? Please elaborate.

Wild Horse Photography wrote:

And, if all the photographers and models "BridgitC-Makeup Artist" worked with in the past, had her attitude and decided not to stoop down and work at her level to help build her skills and experience up...well, she'd be mad too. Lol.

It goes both ways.

Yeah.. however, the photographers that I contacted wanted to see my skill first! They didn't just see me and say.. "cute kid.. I'll let her play in my pictures" So... it's not like I am now arrogant, and will not help these models/photographers now that I'm a little stronger. Maybe some do. Still after I did get a little better, I did reach out and help out someone that looked out for me when I started! So.. I feel like shhh I paid my dues! I'm OUT!

And... what about the photographers that I offered to work with TFP when I started that didn't reply at all, or said.. uh.. hell no, you're NEW! Now.. these same guys are like.. Hey!! Lovely work! Let's get up!! Uh.. that's a HELL NO! LOL
not to be nasty, but damn. I guess it goes back to being nice. If you don't want to do TFP, "Hell No" isn't a good answer, and yes I did get one from what I thought then was a Good Photographer, but I see now as mediocre. You have no idea who you might be shooting down in the future. hehehe

"Back then yall didn't want me, now I'm a little hot, and yall are all on me" - Mike Jones