Photographer
joe man
Posts: 39
San Marcos, Texas, US
I Y Q Too wrote:
When someone contacts me I either write back a definite Yes or No it takes about five seconds. If you want to be a professional you need to act like a professional.
It is called common curiosity ...  Oh was I ever fooled .. I read your reply and my interest picked up ... FINALLY a model that GETS IT ... But then, I look over and see you are a PHOTOGRAPHER.
Drat .. foiled again at finding a professional ..... even if they are an amateur at modeling ....
I have run across one model in the past that ran her business like a business ... Right up front on her profile she tells me she signs a FULL RELEASE ... no questions asked. She send emails indicting what kind of hair and makeup she brings to the project -and even has a shoot area with all manner of props and wardrobe .... gee imagine that, a model in the modeling business that runs it as a business ....
Model
KelliOnLineGlamourNude
Posts: 2999
Barrie, Ontario, Canada
clickman818 wrote:
Oh was I ever fooled .. I read your reply and my interest picked up ... FINALLY a model that GETS IT ... But then, I look over and see you are a PHOTOGRAPHER.
Drat .. foiled again at finding a professional ..... even if they are an amateur at modeling ....
I have run across one model in the past that ran her business like a business ... Right up front on her profile she tells me she signs a FULL RELEASE ... no questions asked. She send emails indicting what kind of hair and makeup she brings to the project -and even has a shoot area with all manner of props and wardrobe .... gee imagine that, a model in the modeling business that runs it as a business .... What some people don't realize is it's VERY rare to receive a mature and professional response when you reply with a courteous thanks, but no thanks. It's usually either hostility or the photographer being very persistent and not taking no for an answer. This is not my experience I'm referring to, models talk.
Photographer
joe man
Posts: 39
San Marcos, Texas, US
KelliOnLineGlamourNude wrote:
What some people don't realize is it's VERY rare to receive a mature and professional response when you reply with a courteous thanks, but no thanks. It's usually either hostility or the photographer being very persistent and not taking no for an answer. This is not my experience I'm referring to, models talk. You got it ... a thanks but no thanks ( and a ping back reply from photographer) leaves open the door and is called diplomacy .. you never can tell either as a photographer or model, who knows whom, or if you may need the skill set of either.
Photographers and models both need to keep the door open in general - except for creepy models and creepy photographers
On not liking somebodys style and that being the reason for not-replying or making a rude reply - I saw one portfolio where the photographer did what looked like polaroid style shots and they were of interest ( to me at least) just because of that .. the poses were horrible, the lighting was horrible .. but that horribleness had its place at the right time...
Photographer
NAZM0
Posts: 63
Cape Town, Western Cape, South Africa
I joined in January, I had almost no model-related images, so from the get go I knew I had nothing to offer and everything to prove.
I therefore contacted models in my area, with a clear PDF of what I want to achieve, and offered to pay if the fee is reasonable.
After my first shoot and portfolio update, getting TF shoots organised became way easier, and I started getting models who travelled to my location asking to do a TF shoot (2 in one month actually).
Until you prove that you can add value to their portfolio, its very unlikely they will say yes to a TF shoot. So you need to add value with $$$. Remember, for every one mail you send a pretty young girl, she has 10 more by more experienced (or with bigger portfolios) than you.
Remember, models has to prepare, and spend money on you even for a test, makeup, hair, fuel/travel costs etc....
Photographer
joe man
Posts: 39
San Marcos, Texas, US
Nazmo wrote:
I joined in January, I had almost no model-related images, so from the get go I knew I had nothing to offer and everything to prove.
.... Just looked at your profile .... you say...
I have a fairly specific style, to create images I as a Graphic Designer would be happy to use in a publication. My emphasis lies on image clarity, colour Then I looked at your images ..
Banging Color man! Banging clarity too and banging simplicity leaving a lot of room for ad copy placements ... really .... hats off to you ..
Photographer
NAZM0
Posts: 63
Cape Town, Western Cape, South Africa
clickman818 wrote:
Just looked at your profile .... you say...
Then I looked at your images ..
Banging Color man! Banging clarity too and banging simplicity leaving a lot of room for ad copy placements ... really .... hats off to you .. Hey Clickman, Thanks for the comments
If you read my first paragraph, I am a graphic designer with 12 years experience, so I understand visuals and what works in the industry. I am inexperienced as a Model photographer, but I have always owned a camera and had an interest in the field.
Im by no means gifted, but its alot of hardwork, hours and hours (even days) of youtube tutorials. Most of all, I have photographer friends that I tap into, and demand harsh criticisms from.
Its just in the last 3 months that I persued model and fashion photography, using my general understanding of creating images, framing, colour and technical aspects thereof.
I think the lesson is, even though I knew I could get stuck into this, I had nothing to show, so I was willing to part with some money (model and MUA) at the beginning. And it wasnt alot of money, way less than any one bit of camera hardware.
Photographer
TEW Photography
Posts: 152
York, Pennsylvania, US
M A R L H A M wrote:
It sounds as if there are two, possibly three, potential issues for you:
1. The level of experience/competency demonstrated by your current portfolio might not be quite what you think it is - I'd suggest you ask for critique here in order to explore that aspect:
https://www.modelmayhem.com/t.php?forum_id=8
2. There's a possibility that the messages you're sending out might not be couched in the best way. Generally short and to the point works for me. Overly personal content about you or the model is probably best avoided.
3. There is no compulsion upon people to reply - when you get dozens of similar messages on a regular basis replying to everyone can become tedious and time-consuming. Also, experienced people might be mildly offended if someone asks for TF yet they demonstrate little or no experience themselves.
Hope that helps a little. This pretty much sums it up.
Model
Kyzn
Posts: 28
London, England, United Kingdom
For me, starting out, I would contact a lot of photographers trying to get tf shoots, my portfolio had no professional images, just of me and my friend trying something out. I would get ignored a lot, infact, every shoot I got from the first two months of joining this site has come from the photographers contacting me first. I honestly have never received a "no, thank you" from this site yet so I assumed that this was just the etiquette for this site which I predict a lot of models believe.
To increase your chances in getting shoots, I would suggest starting out doing either one of the two options;
1. Going on the browse tab on this site searching for models on your area and searching "recently joined" order. Most of the models here are new and these would be great for getting your numbers up.
2. Finding models you like and offering to pay them in some way, doesn't necessarily have to be through money but that would be preferred.
Wish you good luck in your Photography OP.
Photographer
Hannu Palovuori Photogr
Posts: 8
Tillsonburg, Ontario, Canada
KelliOnLineGlamourNude wrote:
clickman818 wrote:
Oh was I ever fooled .. I read your reply and my interest picked up ... FINALLY a
What some people don't realize is it's VERY rare to receive a mature and professional response when you reply with a courteous thanks, but no thanks. It's usually either hostility or the photographer being very persistent and not taking no for an answer. This is not my experience I'm referring to, models talk. And then there are models who do not show up on agreed upon times for photo shoots, no calls, no notice. Few days later you get a call..."oh I had a cold...personal emergency..etc".
Best way to deal with behaviour like this - no second chances. There are lot of models out there who are professional and willing to show up.
So the courtesy goes both ways..
Photographer
FredPMB
Posts: 1
Paris, Île-de-France, France
Well, thanks everyone, that was a very interesting reading ! I was slightly bothered that models would not answer my messages. Just to see what would happen, I even tried to ask (only one yet) why. But in a few minutes I learned and understood a lot. From friends' advices, I know that I need to update my current photos with slightly better retouching (ah, not enough hours in a day). Also I'll post (hopefully) interesting photos from upcoming sessions. Then I guess I'll post a request for comments on my portfolio on the appropriate place Have a nice day/night (your timezone may vary ?) Fred
Photographer
kschruder
Posts: 85
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Yeah I definitely notice that the more I shoot, the more models want to talk to me and organize shots.
But, I also don't expect a reply from every message I send out. Really, when I'm on the search for a certain type of model, I'll message maybe 10 and get 1 reply. Doesn't bother me any, I'll still get to do the shoot and that's all that matters.
Out of curiosity, for the models out there... approx how many messages are you getting a week?
Photographer
Shot By Adam
Posts: 8089
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Nazmo wrote:
Until you prove that you can add value to their portfolio, its very unlikely they will say yes to a TF shoot. So you need to add value with $$$. Remember, for every one mail you send a pretty young girl, she has 10 more by more experienced (or with bigger portfolios) than you.
Remember, models has to prepare, and spend money on you even for a test, makeup, hair, fuel/travel costs etc.... I was going to respond to this thread but you did it for me, almost word-for-word. Everything you said is 100% accurate. It comes down to value...value in providing good photos for the model's portfolio and if you are unable to do that, value in something else...money being the preferred method by most although a model once paid my wife and I a wonderfully cooked meal in trade for some headshots.
TejS26 wrote:
I understand where you are coming from and you raise some good points. These weren't very professional models though and I don't appreciate the negative vibe about my port-okay it isn't the best out there but in the coming months it will probably be better. .. I don't buy a product based on what it may or may not be later, I buy it for what it can do right now. And right now, without going into a critique (which I desperately think you need right now), you need to realize that what you have out there may not be a marketable service to someone willing to pay or trade for photography services.
So if you want to experiment and you aren't getting any takers, you have to up the ante and that will probably require $$$ on your part. If that is something outside your financial situation right now then perhaps photography is the wrong hobby for you?
Photographer
Shot By Adam
Posts: 8089
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
TejS26 wrote:
If someone wanted to work together and contacted me first and offered me a price, I can try and work around that rate. Way to go there Mr. Proactive! If you are sending out email after email and are getting "no" as a response, you need to up the ante. How about YOU offering THEM money first?
Jesus Christ on a Pogo Stick. You're here asking advice from people and it sounds like you're going out of your way to sabotage all your efforts before you even begin.
Photographer
LA StarShooter
Posts: 2730
Los Angeles, California, US
The most important thing is to always strive for excellence. Never show frustration in forums. Never imply that you're not successful. If no one expresses interest up the power of your portfolio until they start begging for your time.
You're obviously invested--photography school and you list yourself as semipro. Good luck and godspeed to you.
Photographer
Interactive Studios
Posts: 3
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Yep, it sucks.
Get used to it, some people just can't/don't/won't communicate.
Model
Jen B
Posts: 4474
Phoenix, Arizona, US
Drew Smith Photography wrote:
Tejas
Are you offering to pay them with money?
If you are offering TF then many models on MM will look to see if what they get from a TF shoot will benefit them. Some, as you have found, will not bother replying - and that, to some on MM, is taken as a 'no I don't want to work with you.'. Now I am at the point where I appreciate a no-reply for what it is. Previously I've had people reply with a whole lot of things other than a yes and I didn't realize they were trying to say no. It can get confusing in a "waste my time" kind of when they claim 'this or that' as a reason not to shoot because I will try to work around the 'this or that' only to find out they just meant no.
So, anything other than a YES is a no, (be it a no reply or a reply of other things.)
Jen
p.s. edit: although I do not do the no reply, I now readily accept them gladly
Photographer
eybdoog
Posts: 2647
New York, New York, US
OP: read this article and replace the word song writer with photographer. http://diymusician.cdbaby.com/2014/04/l … =DIY041714 Also, check out the forum search function. This topic has been covered many times over. You might benefit from the archival wisdom of how folks deal with it. Group shoots/workshops/and networking with other photographers in your area to find solid models initially are your best friend until you earn some street cred. good luck!
Photographer
ChadAlan
Posts: 4254
Los Angeles, California, US
Nazmo wrote:
I joined in January, I had almost no model-related images, so from the get go I knew I had nothing to offer and everything to prove.
I therefore contacted models in my area, with a clear PDF of what I want to achieve, and offered to pay if the fee is reasonable.
After my first shoot and portfolio update, getting TF shoots organised became way easier, and I started getting models who travelled to my location asking to do a TF shoot (2 in one month actually).
Until you prove that you can add value to their portfolio, its very unlikely they will say yes to a TF shoot. So you need to add value with $$$. Remember, for every one mail you send a pretty young girl, she has 10 more by more experienced (or with bigger portfolios) than you.
Remember, models has to prepare, and spend money on you even for a test, makeup, hair, fuel/travel costs etc.... Good attitude!
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