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Photographer
Erick Prince
Posts: 3,457
Austin, Texas, US


http://www.forbes.com/2011/05/05/top-ea … artner=omg



I never knew models make this type of money. Heidi I understand with the TV shows and what not. Are the endorsement deals and modeling contracts that good? Clearly they are on the high end but it was a bit surprising. How do you all currently feel about the current state of the financial potential of modeling?
Jun 13 11 07:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
D M M
Posts: 7,905
New York, New York, US


It's the endorsement deals and other projects. Gisele also has a lingerie line, for example. Heidi has a fashion line. Kate does Topshop.

These models are all celebrities, really. That is to say, they do more work as celebrities than they do as models.

ETA: We need a union. I know that Sara Ziff is working on that, but, there are models who are working a ton and hardly taking home enough to pay the bills. Unfortunately, the dreamers imagine that every model gets paid as well as Lara and Candice, when, that's simply not the case. Most break even, if that.
Jun 13 11 07:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Clothing Designer
veypurr
Posts: 214
Albuquerque, New Mexico, US


Right, I would like to see which just straight up high fashion model makes the most. Meaning a model that is not a celebrity and has no line or endorsement deal. Just a model that does runway and ads in magazines.

Along those lines I'd say it's probably Karlie Kloss.
Jun 13 11 07:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Erick Prince
Posts: 3,457
Austin, Texas, US


veypurr wrote:
Right, I would like to see which just straight up high fashion model makes the most. Meaning a model that is not a celebrity and has no line or endorsement deal. Just a model that does runway and ads in magazines.

Along those lines I'd say it's probably Karlie Kloss.

I was wondering the same. Are agency models getting more lucrative deals as opposed to "freelance" models? I've seen many non agency models that are amazing compared to agency represented ones.

Jun 13 11 07:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Christie Gabriel
Posts: 2,794
Chicago, Illinois, US


Erick Prince wrote:
I was wondering the same. Are agency models getting more lucrative deals as opposed to "freelance" models? I've seen many non agency models that are amazing compared to agency represented ones.

I am doing far better freelancing. My agencies have been pretty worthless the last year or two. Lucky for me I am now a free agent and free of agencies smile

Jun 13 11 07:50 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
D M M
Posts: 7,905
New York, New York, US


Erick Prince wrote:
I was wondering the same. Are agency models getting more lucrative deals as opposed to "freelance" models? I've seen many non agency models that are amazing compared to agency represented ones.

In average comparison? No. You cannot get any RTW campaign freelance, or major catalog work (and these are the highest payest jobs). Freelancing as a fashion model is not generally desirable. Most photographers won't even test with you if you do not have an agency. Of course, I imagine things are different in different parts of the nation, but New York City is, after all, the country's real fashion capital.

Jun 13 11 07:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Janos
Posts: 1,571
Atlanta, Georgia, US


Just keep in mind these are the top models who have established their name. Of course I am only throwing out a ball park figure, but my guess is that there are less than 5,000 models with the top tier agencies in the world who make a six ± figure income. The majority just do it part time.
Jun 13 11 08:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Christie Gabriel
Posts: 2,794
Chicago, Illinois, US


D M M  wrote:
Most photographers won't even test with you if you do not have an agency.

Really?

Jun 13 11 08:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
D M M
Posts: 7,905
New York, New York, US


Christie Gabriel wrote:

Really?

Really. I found it much easier to book tests once I had representation. In fact, it didn't even matter that I was with a small boutique agency. Just the fact that I had an agency behind me did the trick.

Jun 13 11 08:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Little Alice
Posts: 3,803
Chicago, Illinois, US


Janos - wrote:
Just keep in mind these are the top models who have established their name. Of course I am only throwing out a ball park figure, but my guess is that there are less than 5,000 models with the top tier agencies in the world who make a six ± figure income. The majority just do it part time.

Making up statistics is fun!  smile
“Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything. 14% of people know that.” -Homer Simpson

A video of the top 10 earning models from last year: http://www.blinkx.com/watch-video/top-1 … o486IQfPVw

The list hasn't changed much this year, the top 5:  http://www.luxurylaunches.com/celebriti … _world.php

Some articles that talk about pay in the top of the fashion world:
http://blogs.payscale.com/ask_dr_salary … bs_pa.html
http://www.actingbiz.com/articles/avera … actors.php
http://www.svenler.com/blog/income-stat … ally-make/

But don't let the big numbers the top models make fool you, a lot of agency signed fashion models go into debt, fast:
http://dismagazine.com/discussion/16801 … of-models/
http://thinkprogress.org/yglesias/2011/ … -industry/

I highly suggest to anyone that hasn't already seen it to watch "Picture Me," the self documentary of a model discovered at 18 who goes through the cream of the fashion industry (NY, Paris, Milan, etc) and tells it like it is.

Jun 13 11 08:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AJScalzitti
Posts: 11,600
Atlanta, Georgia, US


D M M  wrote:
It's the endorsement deals and other projects. Gisele also has a lingerie line, for example. Heidi has a fashion line. Kate does Topshop.

These models are all celebrities, really. That is to say, they do more work as celebrities than they do as models.

ETA: We need a union. I know that Sara Ziff is working on that, but, there are models who are working a ton and hardly taking home enough to pay the bills. Unfortunately, the dreamers imagine that every model gets paid as well as Lara and Candice, when, that's simply not the case. Most break even, if that.

A union? So the agency cut isn't taking enough of your money?  I am all for it, it would just push more work to the right to work states wink and we would see a major shift in fashion.  Seriously this is no way that would help you, just like every other modern business it would just move work to southern states or overseas.  Just look at one of the last holdouts, SAG and how many tv shows moved to Canada for filming now.

Jun 13 11 08:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
LC Mtl
Posts: 3,599
Montreal, Quebec, Canada


D M M  wrote:
It's the endorsement deals and other projects. Gisele also has a lingerie line, for example. Heidi has a fashion line. Kate does Topshop.

These models are all celebrities, really. That is to say, they do more work as celebrities than they do as models.

ETA: We need a union. I know that Sara Ziff is working on that, but, there are models who are working a ton and hardly taking home enough to pay the bills. Unfortunately, the dreamers imagine that every model gets paid as well as Lara and Candice, when, that's simply not the case. Most break even, if that.

+1

I don't know if we need an union but we seriously need some kind of regulation about it.

Jun 13 11 10:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
LC Mtl
Posts: 3,599
Montreal, Quebec, Canada


Erick Prince wrote:

I was wondering the same. Are agency models getting more lucrative deals as opposed to "freelance" models? I've seen many non agency models that are amazing compared to agency represented ones.

Doing better with an agency. They give me regular work and credibility in the fashion industry. They just give me more opportunities when it comes to modelling.

But I also think a girl can do pretty well freelancing if she has an amazing port and networks well.

X.

LC

Jun 13 11 10:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Erick Prince
Posts: 3,457
Austin, Texas, US


Little Alice wrote:

Making up statistics is fun!  smile
“Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything. 14% of people know that.” -Homer Simpson

A video of the top 10 earning models from last year: http://www.blinkx.com/watch-video/top-1 … o486IQfPVw

The list hasn't changed much this year, the top 5:  http://www.luxurylaunches.com/celebriti … _world.php

Some articles that talk about pay in the top of the fashion world:
http://blogs.payscale.com/ask_dr_salary … bs_pa.html
http://www.actingbiz.com/articles/avera … actors.php
http://www.svenler.com/blog/income-stat … ally-make/

But don't let the big numbers the top models make fool you, a lot of agency signed fashion models go into debt, fast:
http://dismagazine.com/discussion/16801 … of-models/
http://thinkprogress.org/yglesias/2011/ … -industry/

I highly suggest to anyone that hasn't already seen it to watch "Picture Me," the self documentary of a model discovered at 18 who goes through the cream of the fashion industry (NY, Paris, Milan, etc) and tells it like it is.

I just watched Picture Me and thought it was good. I wonder what the experience of  a model from a non privileged background is like. Her parents said they financially took care of her until she started making money which I'm sure isn't the case for most models especially the ones coming from poor countries in eastern Europe. I also had no idea that the agencies charge the model for all the flights, drivers, rooms, etc. Seems kind of lame to me.

Jun 14 11 01:01 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Malin_
Posts: 3,900
New York, New York, US


Erick Prince wrote:
I was wondering the same. Are agency models getting more lucrative deals as opposed to "freelance" models? I've seen many non agency models that are amazing compared to agency represented ones.

It's not only about getting more lucrative deals - as an agency model, you also get to work for legitimate clients who would never look at you twice if you were a freelance model (I'm sure there might be exceptions, but this has been my personal experience). Not to mention you have an agency who negotiate your pay, makes the client pay, etc etc...

Also.... Exactly what would a union for models do? Who would want to be in it? What would the requirements and fees be to join and how would dues be determined? And what about employers...? Would they be willing to sign all the paperwork to become signatories? Can you imagine all modeling jobs being union or non-union so that you all of a sudden couldn't make yourself available for a large portion of all the work out there once you had joined the union...? 

I don't see this happening at all! I'm SAG and I'd say there are a lot of cons as well as pros to being unionized. As long as I'm with a modeling agency that will handle rate negotiations, make sure I get paid and treated reasonably well on set, I would see no reason whatsoever to join a models' union.

Jun 14 11 05:26 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Designit - Edward Olson
Posts: 1,613
Eureka, California, US


http://www.forbes.com/2011/05/05/top-ea … odels.html

Use this link to avoid all the ads and clicking.
Jun 14 11 05:30 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Vasilisa-art
Posts: 3,101
London, England, United Kingdom


Erick Prince wrote:

I was wondering the same. Are agency models getting more lucrative deals as opposed to "freelance" models? I've seen many non agency models that are amazing compared to agency represented ones.

Yes, agency fashion or commercial models are exposed to far more lucrative work and better-paying clients. On these sites, you will not work for a major brand campaign, and you're not going to land the jobs with the 5-figure buyouts. That's the preserve of the agencies.

As for amazing or not - if they're not signed but are still great models, it usually means they're just not agency standard. They're not better or worse than agency models, but they'll usually end up working in other genres anyway.

Jun 14 11 05:31 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Erick Prince
Posts: 3,457
Austin, Texas, US


Vasilisa-art wrote:

Yes, agency fashion or commercial models are exposed to far more lucrative work and better-paying clients. On these sites, you will not work for a major brand campaign, and you're not going to land the jobs with the 5-figure buyouts. That's the preserve of the agencies.

As for amazing or not - if they're not signed but are still great models, it usually means they're just not agency standard. They're not better or worse than agency models, but they'll usually end up working in other genres anyway.

So is his exposure why the agencies charge the model for everything. Is it that the agency basically works for the model and bills her accordingly? Kind of like a lawyer.

Jun 14 11 12:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
JEM model
Posts: 854
San Francisco, California, US


i do just fine freelancing. I shoot almost EVERY day and travel constantly.

Who needs an agent anyways?!? wink
Jun 14 11 01:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Robert Sawin
Posts: 6,740
Carlsbad, California, US


D M M  wrote:
It's the endorsement deals and other projects. Gisele also has a lingerie line, for example. Heidi has a fashion line. Kate does Topshop.

These models are all celebrities, really. That is to say, they do more work as celebrities than they do as models.

ETA: We need a union. I know that Sara Ziff is working on that, but, there are models who are working a ton and hardly taking home enough to pay the bills. Unfortunately, the dreamers imagine that every model gets paid as well as Lara and Candice, when, that's simply not the case. Most break even, if that.

models have unions they are called agents and managers.

Jun 14 11 02:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Robert Sawin
Posts: 6,740
Carlsbad, California, US


JEM model wrote:
i do just fine freelancing. I shoot almost EVERY day and travel constantly.

Who needs an agent anyways?!? wink

you may need them when your starting out and you may need them when your over booked. 

You are only one person.  Some times agents can get you more money.

Jun 14 11 02:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Malin_
Posts: 3,900
New York, New York, US


Robert Sawin wrote:

models have unions they are called agents and managers.

LOL what are you talking about? So not the same thing!

Jun 14 11 02:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
D M M
Posts: 7,905
New York, New York, US


Malin_ wrote:
It's not only about getting more lucrative deals - as an agency model, you also get to work for legitimate clients who would never look at you twice if you were a freelance model (I'm sure there might be exceptions, but this has been my personal experience). Not to mention you have an agency who negotiate your pay, makes the client pay, etc etc...

Also.... Exactly what would a union for models do? Who would want to be in it? What would the requirements and fees be to join and how would dues be determined? And what about employers...? Would they be willing to sign all the paperwork to become signatories? Can you imagine all modeling jobs being union or non-union so that you all of a sudden couldn't make yourself available for a large portion of all the work out there once you had joined the union...? 

I don't see this happening at all! I'm SAG and I'd say there are a lot of cons as well as pros to being unionized. As long as I'm with a modeling agency that will handle rate negotiations, make sure I get paid and treated reasonably well on set, I would see no reason whatsoever to join a models' union.

As I understand it, Sara is aiming for better regulation, especially in regards to issues of sexual harassment and assault.

I remember reading from a model about how she dropped her major agency because they sent her on a test with a photographer who attempted to assault her. She notified them, and yet they kept sending their new models to test with that photographer.

We know that not ALL agencies represent their models' interests. At the end of the day, they are concerned with THEIR money, not their models' well-being. They have been known to make egregious charges for things, to push their models into unhealthy eating habits (For example, my booker refused to send me out on castings until I was 100 lbs, when I was booking very well at my 105 lbs, and already very hungry. He was insistent that I lose the weight to book more editorial, but I'm simply not a high fashion gal, and he should've known that five pounds wouldn't have done anything to change that. I dropped my agency because I have that luxury, but many models, especially those far from home, do not, are much younger, impressionable, etc), and things of that immoral nature.

ETA: I found this interesting. Another article on the website included financial statements, even, but I cannot seem to locate it right now.

http://jezebel.com/5698562/models-sue-a … 75-million

ETA2: Here! http://uk.jezebel.com/5701608/exclusive … its-models

Jun 14 11 02:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Robert Sawin
Posts: 6,740
Carlsbad, California, US


Malin_ wrote:
LOL what are you talking about? So not the same thing!

unions will squash models not protect them.  agents are only looking after one thing to make money.  and if your not making money they are not making money.  A models life span is too short for unions.  I am just making a point that its not really necessary to have model unions.  unions only complicate things.  the only protection a model needs is her looks and her stats.  that is how tall she is dress size ect.

edit
that and actually showing up to your shoots.

Jun 14 11 02:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Daniela Victoria
Posts: 25,108
Cranford, New Jersey, US


Malin_ wrote:

LOL what are you talking about? So not the same thing!

Lots of trolling with this one...just heads up wink

Jun 14 11 02:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
D M M
Posts: 7,905
New York, New York, US


Robert Sawin wrote:

unions will squash models not protect them.  agents are only looking after one thing to make money.  and if your not making money they are not making money.  A models life span is too short for unions.  I am just making a point that its not really necessary to have model unions.  unions only complicate things.  the only protection a model needs is her looks and her stats.  that is how tall she is dress size ect.

Yes. You're right. Beauty saves the day!

I'm sorry, but it does not work like that, at all. That one of the biggest models this past decade (again, Sara Ziff) is working with Columbia Law to unionize should show you that even the high-earning and beloved models sometimes suffer from unprofessional treatment.

Also, I posted a few links above that might better help inform you of the financial problems of the industry.

Jun 14 11 02:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Malin_
Posts: 3,900
New York, New York, US


Robert Sawin wrote:

unions will squash models not protect them.  agents are only looking after one thing to make money.  and if your not making money they are not making money.  A models life span is too short for unions.  I am just making a point that its not really necessary to have model unions.  unions only complicate things.  the only protection a model needs is her looks and her stats.  that is how tall she is dress size ect.

edit
that and actually showing up to your shoots.

WTF are you smoking... I said above I don't see the need for model unions and this is your response?! Hahaha! Anyway gotta go, I'm on set. And it's a union set... go figure.big_smile

Jun 14 11 02:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Michele Belle
Posts: 102
Los Angeles, California, US


D M M  wrote:
It's the endorsement deals and other projects. Gisele also has a lingerie line, for example. Heidi has a fashion line. Kate does Topshop.

These models are all celebrities, really. That is to say, they do more work as celebrities than they do as models.

ETA: We need a union. I know that Sara Ziff is working on that, but, there are models who are working a ton and hardly taking home enough to pay the bills. Unfortunately, the dreamers imagine that every model gets paid as well as Lara and Candice, when, that's simply not the case. Most break even, if that.

PERFECT response.... just the way the biz goes! You go girls!

Jun 15 11 09:50 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Michele Belle
Posts: 102
Los Angeles, California, US


D M M  wrote:

Yes. You're right. Beauty saves the day!

I'm sorry, but it does not work like that, at all. That one of the biggest models this past decade (again, Sara Ziff) is working with Columbia Law to unionize should show you that even the high-earning and beloved models sometimes suffer from unprofessional treatment.



LOL again, PERFECT response to the previous response! UMMM, who in the hell said models or photogs were silly? Smart as a whip baby...
Also, I posted a few links above that might better help inform you of the financial problems of the industry.

Jun 15 11 09:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Toni Danielle Milan
Posts: 82
San Antonio, Texas, US


JEM model wrote:
i do just fine freelancing. I shoot almost EVERY day and travel constantly.

Who needs an agent anyways?!? wink

Amen to that sister!

Jun 16 11 11:50 am  Link  Quote 
Clothing Designer
veypurr
Posts: 214
Albuquerque, New Mexico, US


I don't think that unions in high fashion would work. High fashion would just find more 17 year old eastern european size 0's and 2's to take there place.

There is a big difference between Lara Stone and a model who does all the fashion weeks, all the shows but no one knows her name except for the people on Fashionspot. Three seasons later, you never see her again.

But who knows....maybe it could work?
Jun 16 11 11:59 pm  Link  Quote 
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