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How do I know a photographer is trustworthy?
Melvin Moten Jr wrote: The poor girl just wanted some help and I feel terrible for her! She is new to this and doesn't know any different! Sep 02 06 10:31 pm Link you cant really tell if a photog is trustworthy or if a model is to be trusted..... u just cant.. u can check a zillion refs and still go wrong. its like a 1st date.... but seriously have u got any idea what kind of pictures u gonna be doing ... what its for and all that.... i just dont pay models.... unless really she just got it.... but paying someone with no experience......... hell yeaaaaaaaa.... Sep 02 06 10:32 pm Link KEVIN HILL wrote: Yeah, "you can't just can't tell"..... Just like you just can't tell if any one of the zilllion cars coming at you in the opposite lane might veer over into yours and hit you head on. - "u just can't" - Great advise. Sep 02 06 11:17 pm Link Definitely go with your gut feeling! And check with prior models that the photographer has worked with. I offer to give references in my profile... I think I'll add a bit about "escorts encouraged... especially the first time we work together". I've escorted a model to shoots before because she felt nervous AND because she needed someone to carry the makeup case.  And regarding the snide responses to your question... we have rude / inconsiderate people everywhere in the world it seems. It just makes it easier for the models to figure out who they DON'T want to work with. Sep 02 06 11:19 pm Link Brittney, I hope she does contact you. I feel terrible for her too. -Glenn Sep 02 06 11:23 pm Link This isn't about you Glenn, why are you defending yourself with your resumé of 60 omp models? Sep 02 06 11:24 pm Link This isn't about you, Eric. Nothing to worry over, or make incorrect assumptions about. Just supporting my earlier statements for those who can't seem to understand that you CAN verify the integrity and trustworthiness of a photographer along with specific instructions on how to do it, instead of bringing a bodyguard, hiding under your bed, or calling the National Guard. -Glenn FYI - I was gonna use Kevin Hill as an example, but he doesn't have any references listed in his portfolio, so I switched to me. Sep 02 06 11:32 pm Link Eric S. wrote: dude, im sorry. I didnt know that was you. I guess you want your h2d back? Sep 02 06 11:47 pm Link J Schumacher wrote: I wasn't beating up on a new model. I was simply [and bluntly] stating that until the OP [who does not qualify as a model in my estimation] has a grip on what she's doing, she's going to cause nothing but trouble for both herself and the next poor slob who tries to work with her. Feel free to coddle her all you like, but when some teen-age wanabe names you in the next hesay/shesay-a-thon, you'll whistle a different tune. Sep 03 06 07:06 am Link Brittney Harrington wrote: That's why I told her to figure out what she was doing and to come back when she has her head on straight. Simple. Sep 03 06 07:07 am Link  Sep 03 06 07:11 am Link Melvin Moten Jr wrote: Electric ones with the tagger still on it (you'd hear the sustain if it were playing), hooked up to amps that go to 11. Sep 03 06 07:32 am Link Melvin sounds like he's had some bad experiences and now he's taking it out on others. Everyone is a beginner at some point Melvin, and we're all going to make mistakes. She was here hoping to avoid one, not to be told to go away and come back when she's ready to do as she's told by a photographer that she doesn't know anything about. What you consider "coddling" other people consider kindness or civility. Maybe she'll eventually grow the kind of hard shell that you seem to think one needs to be a professional model. Maybe not. For her sake I hope not. And maybe that makes me unprofessional as well... but if I ever found myself at a point where I told a new model to go away and grow up, I think I would quit doing this. Sep 03 06 09:08 am Link Capt Stu Beans wrote: Off topic... Sep 03 06 09:24 am Link Machine wrote: Actually I've never had any bad experiences because I've never worked with anyone who dosen't know what they're doing already. In the type of work that I do, self awareness is a key component for both the model and the photographer. Go into my genre without a clue and you're in deep trouble. Machine wrote: Being a beginner is not synonymous with not knowing what you're doing. If you think it's "cute" to watch the OP "make mistakes" then she can do it at your expense. Good luck with that. Machine wrote: If having my act together and expecting the people i work with is evidence of a "hard shell" then you can call me Iron Man for all I care. I refuse to waste my time or ability "making nice" with someone who needs to be told some hard truths. The fact is, from the OP, you have no idea what the actual situation was...just a sketchy description from someone who's so in over her head, she has to turn to a forum of complete strangers to find what her next step is. Coddle her all you like, but what if you were the photographer in question? How would you feel being described by someone you're trying to work with as little more than a potential assailant? Machine wrote: Oh, lose the drama. She asked for advice and I advised her to go back to square one and get her ducks in a row before thinking of hiring herself out as a model. As I said earlier, do you think an agency would put up with this sort of thing? Sep 03 06 09:46 am Link CareLyn Anita wrote: THank you for getting it. I love you even MORE now. Sep 03 06 09:48 am Link ...simple. Contact by phone and/or email a few recent models who have worked with the photographer and gain knowledge from their experience. ...whaddya waiting for? Sep 03 06 09:56 am Link Melvin... way to overreact. If you want to beat up on me some more... feel free to mail me privately and we can spend a few hours insulting each other until we both get tired of it. Sep 03 06 10:25 am Link Machine wrote: I don't recall writing one insulting word in my reply. I think the over-reacting is all being done in your own mind, sir. Sep 03 06 10:52 am Link As I said... privately. We're way off topic here now. Sep 03 06 11:02 am Link Machine wrote: We're still on topic, you just don't like what I have to say about the topic, which isn't my problem. Sep 03 06 11:16 am Link that is the reason why i meet all my models at Restaurants just like any other business meetings if you are uncomfortable meeting in the hotel tell him you'd meet him in a public place or the hotel lobby, most hotels i know have a lobby... Sep 03 06 11:18 am Link You've got no experience, barely any portfolio, and somebody wants to meet you at a hotel for a paid shoot? If they're paying you, don't you think that's a little wierd? If you're paying them, why are you doing business with someone you don't think you can trust? Let's look at the "escort" advice a little closer, shall we? Let's say I'm going to an appointment with someone, and I suspect this person is likely to attack me in some manner. To make myself feel safer I take a thug with me. Does this make me feel safer? Maybe, but am I going to be completely relaxed? Hardly. The anticipation of mortal combat is not nearly as relaxing as some wine while sitting in the hot tub. In order to really be "safer" by the presense of my security guard, the thug has to be closer to both me and the potential attacker than the attacker is to me. In the case of a photographer, say the photog is 10 feet from me. If he decides to do some raping and pillaging during our shoot (because I'm so hot that no man can resist my stuff), it would only take a couple of seconds for him to cover the 10 foot distance while drawing his knives and guns. My thug would have to be closer than that in order to react to the attack and cut the weapon-bearing photog off before he gets to me. So now I'm watching bloody combat, which my thug might lose, and I'll be raped and chopped to bits anyway. Chances are, the pics the photographer took before his attack probably suck anyway, because I was too wild-eyed in anticipation of his murder spree. If not that, the photographer probably couldn't concentrate with my thug staring at him with his hand on the butt of his magnum. So I say if you think the photographer is shady (for some reason beyond paranoia), just don't do the shoot. You're kidding yourself if you think taking an "escort" is going to make you feel safe and relaxed, or improve the output of the shoot at all. Sep 03 06 11:39 am Link The topic that we're talking about now is how to treat new models who have questions... and that's what I wanted to take off topic. If you feel like posturing in public. We can do that as well. Sep 03 06 11:45 am Link Give him $20 for sex and see if he fakes orgasim. EL Sep 03 06 11:54 am Link I'm actually confused. Most models I've met on MM have not brought an escort, and those that have, the escorts either stayed out of the way or wanted to pose while the model changed outfits. If I travel to shoot models, it makes sense for me to use a nice hotel for the shoot. There will NOT be enough room for me to shoot and have an escort there. Now, yes, I'm a woman with a pain syndrome so it would be more likely that I would get robbed than I would feed anybody into a wood chipper (too heavy for me to carry to the hotel anyway). Checking references is always a good way to start. And ... I actually started out doing paid nude work for magazines. That's where I started. So if the man had a project where he needed a woman with her look for publishing than it is highly plausible that he could be on the up-and-up. I had no experience, but was diverse enough for what the magazines needed and found intriguing. That actually did count for something back then. And I never used an escort. Though this was all twelve and thirteen years ago. I do agree that there's a lot of misinformation that goes around these forums as far as escorts are concerned. And after the bad model I had to cope with I make sure that I don't shoot models that aren't either highly recommended or have good enough starter images that they can only help my book with some good styling. So, OP, I think that checking references is the first step, but also feeling confident in yourself and knowing where you want to go is the second step. Set your boundaries, as somebody mentioned before. Just don't feed into the fear mentality I see striking a lot of the people here. Just my thoughts as both a model and a photographer. -- Molly Sep 03 06 11:59 am Link Oiy! What an awesome thread...hehehe Regards, Art. Sep 03 06 12:01 pm Link Machine wrote: You don't seem to know what you want. Sep 03 06 12:07 pm Link Meet first. Get a 'feel' for the person. If it feels bad, don't do it. If a job request references, are you going to give them the reference you f**k'd up on, or the one you thought you did a great job on? Ultimately, you have to make your own decisions based upon any info you can find out and how you personally feel about a person. Sep 03 06 12:11 pm Link Bunnie Page wrote: This is a very good question. I have several thousands of dollars worth of photographic equipment. If I don't know an escort or model, I'm do like to talk to them in advance (either by phone or in a short meeting some where in public, if they desire) so we each get to know each other. Sep 03 06 12:17 pm Link Here's what I find HYSTERICALLY ironic here: You get lots of people asking for advice here........ 1. Model posts and says, "I did a tfcd with a photographer last year and still didn't get my photos yet after months of nice e-mails kindly requesting some images. MM response: "That !@#$% GWC, WTF! Post his name!!, Report that scoundrel to the moderators, How dare he take advantage of you like that and treat you more like a hooker than a model!" 2. Model posts and says. "Last night a woman by the name of Lori IM'd me and told me she was a booker at Elite, and asked me to send her webcam pics, including some nude ones, so the agncy can see if I have what it takes for the $100,000 Maidenform job they have. MM response: "That !@#$% GWC, WTF! Post his name!!, Report that scoundrel to the moderators, How dare he take advantage of you like that and treat you more like a hooker than a model!" 4. Anyone posts and says, "Today I got this e-mail from an agency in London, saying they want to hire me for $20,000 for a fashion shoot, and they are Fed Exing me a check for $20,000. But then the next e-mail says they made an accounting error, and sent you $22,000 dollars by mistake, and would you be so kind to wire back the extra $2,000 dollars right away. MM response: "That !@#$% scam artist, WTF! Post his name!!, Report that scoundrel to the moderators, How dare he take advantage of you like that and treat you more like a moron than a professional _________!" 5. A model posts and says "A photographer she hasn't met wants to work with her and wants her to come alone to a hotel room," and humbly asks what to do. MM response: "A-hem, that's ok, don't be scared, don't live in fear, most photographers are trustworthy, the chances are better that you get hit by a car today than chopped up into bits in a hotel room, cough, cough a-hem, its ok missy, we are all trustworthy...." Gee, why is this? Its because if you cute ladies show up at the meeting place with a friend, its almost impossible to take advantage of you. OK, time to take this one out of the oven, this turkey's done. I'm bowing out of the forums for a long time Sep 03 06 05:05 pm Link As a model, I'd be worried by escorts. One of my favorite models told me a story of how when she just was starting to model (in Arizona, I believe), her boyfriend would escort her to shoots. Then the boyfriend started trying to pimp his girlfriend out. He offered to let the photographer do oral on his girlfriend (the model) for $300. Boyfriend got pissed when the model refused. She dumped his ass; the escort (and boyfriend) she thought she could trust. It's a weird world out there. Cheers, Tim Sep 03 06 06:01 pm Link |
