Philip Kwok wrote:
who say the photographer is always the bad guy? that's so .....hem.....90s?  (well 70s will be more like the photographer is the James Bond hero (from the movie "Blow UP" & now photographers in movie are portray as......well watch "Hard Candy" and u know what i mean)

You havent seen Peeping Tom, have you?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0054167/

Bryan Patrick Coleman wrote:
Google "model killed" = 1,610 results

Google "photographer killed" = 11,800 results

Could be understood one or the other way. lol

TXPhotog wrote:

Great.  Like we don't have enough paranoia around here already.

To my knowledge there have been three cases of a real photographer murdering a model who was not his girlfriend in the last 20 years.  One of those probably wasn't a murder.

Does anybody know how many thousands of photo shoots have taken place in those 20 years?  How many hundreds of thousands?

Bravo...................Also theres no SANTA !!!

Can anyone name me any form of human endeavor involving others that is so safe you can find an average of less than one death per million instances?  (Yes, I know there are some.  But damned few.)

Now can anyone name me forms of human endeavor where people are more likely to be killed?  Hints:  walking your dog.  Driving to the store. 

You are far, far more likely to die in your car on the way to a photo shoot than you are to be killed by the photographer once you get there.  And far, far more likely to be killed by the guy you take as an "escort" - a huge percentage of murders are among "significant others".

Does that mean throw caution to the winds?  No, of course not.  Prudence is wise in all things.  But this rampant fear-mongering about photographers puts a great pall on the industry, and makes it ever so much harder for models and photographers to have cooperative relationships.

Now, how many of you recall that one of the three "photographer-murderers" actually ran a "model safety" website, and had lots of "references"?

Yeah, keep those "you could get killed doing this" messages coming.  It's all so very helpful.

Dave Hill San Diego wrote:
How bout this, if you are so scared about being murded, DON'T BECOME A MODEL.  Enough of this rediculous inferrance that photographers are bad people - you're on a modelling web site for god sake.

I was simply sharing the story. Sure there are other and possibly better cautions I could have given about anything else in the world. It thought it best to post it on this site. If you have a problem with that, then don't read the story. If you don't care, then don't read the story. End of discution. No need to bash ppl for sharing, right?

Solomage wrote:
Ya can't be tooooo safe now can you?....probably best to just stay home and hide yourself from the danger of living in the real world. Why don't you enroll yourself in a self defense course if your so afraid?...The training inspires self confidence and self confidence is a beautiful thing, plus it might save your life someday if you knew how to take the bad guys out!......consider it!...it works!

But I could step on a sewing needle that I carelessly left laying on the floor that would cause me to fall down the stairs and break my head open and die. Maybe I should be in a bubble then?
The point in me sharing the story was simply to share the story. I'm not scared, nervous, or worried. I love how ppl read too much into posts.

Samcmahon wrote:

I was simply sharing the story. Sure there are other and possibly better cautions I could have given about anything else in the world. It thought it best to post it on this site. If you have a problem with that, then don't read the story. If you don't care, then don't read the story. End of discution. No need to bash ppl for sharing, right?

No one is coming after you for sharing the story.  Yet two things stand out.
First the title of your thread.  Photographers and murder and your comments.
If it happen then it could happen now.  Bad thing happen to people all the time
but these kinds of threads help no one.

Tony Lawrence wrote:

No one is coming after you for sharing the story.  Yet two things stand out.
First the title of your thread.  Photographers and murder and your comments.
If it happen then it could happen now.  Bad thing happen to people all the time
but these kinds of threads help no one.

The title of my thread was to bring attention to it. It worked didn't it?
And the, "if it could happen then, it could happen now" pertains to the date in which the story took place.

Samcmahon wrote:
You people are amazing. And I don't mean that in a good way.

My one complaint about the people on this site is their need to critisize EVERYTHING. It gets old pretty fast.

I think it's because the boogeyman stories pop up on a daily basis, people get really tired of it.  So no matter how well intentioned your post was, it will always be a subject that gets a rise from the peanut gallery.


There is nothing specific to modelling that warrants more than common sense.

Samcmahon wrote:

The title of my thread was to bring attention to it. It worked didn't it?
And the, "if it could happen then, it could happen now" pertains to the date in which the story took place.

It really didn't work as those that mostly responded told you to bug off.  Its
not personal.  Its just that at least twice a week or more we get a models be
carefull out there thread or a models need to watch out for bad photographers.
After all almost every photographers is a killer a rapist a pornographer or a creep.
Its just getting really old and really tired.  I'm sure you had good intentions but
its after hearing the same old tired warnings its just that tired.  By the way
what do you think models should do that they don't as in be careful out there.
If you're that scared as some suggested stop modeling.

Tony Lawrence wrote:

It really didn't work as those that mostly responded told you to bug off.  Its
not personal.  Its just that at least twice a week or more we get a models be
carefull out there thread or a models need to watch out for bad photographers.
After all almost every photographers is a killer a rapist a pornographer or a creep.
Its just getting really old and really tired.  I'm sure you had good intentions but
its after hearing the same old tired warnings its just that tired.  By the way
what do you think models should do that they don't as in be careful out there.
If you're that scared as some suggested stop modeling.

I have to disagree, my Title for the post DID work. It just didn’t work in a positive way.

If you read up a little, you'll have read that I'm not scared. I don't know why ppl have to misinterpret a post. If I was scared, I wouldn't even be here, let alone be posting.

Samcmahon wrote:

I have to disagree, my Title for the post DID work. It just didn’t work in a positive way.

If you read up a little, you'll have read that I'm not scared. I don't know why ppl have to misinterpret a post. If I was scared, I wouldn't even be here, let alone be posting.

You are missing the point completely.

We are all well aware that there are killers and rapists, yes, even photographers can be found guilty of doing such acts. It is not limited to just one profession. While you intention was sweet, your delivery is a scare tactic.

Chances are the dumbass models who should be reading this thread are too busy chasing $$$ in the casting calls forum.

Think I'm kidding?
https://www.modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=52585
This thread blatantly claims that you will be dismembered. Yet, countless models responded with "I'm interested". Even after it had been said it was a joke.  Why?  Because *some* models are fucking idiots and can't take two seconds to read past how much a particular shoot pays before they throw their foot in the door.

These are the people who are more likely to end up victims of a phony photographer.

Samcmahon wrote:

I have to disagree, my Title for the post DID work. It just didn’t work in a positive way.

If you read up a little, you'll have read that I'm not scared. I don't know why ppl have to misinterpret a post. If I was scared, I wouldn't even be here, let alone be posting.

Yep, I guess you're right it did work but didn't seem to reach and scare your target
group, paranoid models.  Take a look at who responded its mostly photographers.
However again what would you suggest models do?  You posted a story which
might only serve to scare models.  So what now?  Don't meet and go home with
photographers you meet at bars.  Which seems to be where he met many of his
victims.  Don't shoot with people you meet on-line?  What would you have models
do?  Several people have made light of your comments.  I won't but I would ask
that you think about what you say.  We don't need more fear mongering on this
site.  By the way I didn't mean that you were scared but if in general models are
then stop modeling.  I'm just curious because you didn't just offer the link to the
story but you added more.  So now what?  This will be my last post because going
back and forth with people is usually a waste of time.  Re-read some of the posts
others here have written.  Pretend you are a photographer and think about how
you might feel after reading the same kind of threads about a hundred times.

Samcmahon wrote:

I have to disagree, my Title for the post DID work. It just didn’t work in a positive way.

If you read up a little, you'll have read that I'm not scared. I don't know why ppl have to misinterpret a post. If I was scared, I wouldn't even be here, let alone be posting.

Your post unfortunately follows another post by a model pronouncing "ill-intent" of an unnamed photographer on MM.

Following her proclimations of what happened came about 12 photographers piling on, agreeing that this photographer was obviously up to no good.


As it turned out there was a different side to the story, and the truth?

The truth was that not only models but mainly photographers were only way too happy to assume that anyone but them is a serial rapist or murderer.

I think that's kinda a sad indictment myself.

Samcmahon wrote:

I have to disagree, my Title for the post DID work. It just didn’t work in a positive way.

If you read up a little, you'll have read that I'm not scared. I don't know why ppl have to misinterpret a post. If I was scared, I wouldn't even be here, let alone be posting.

It is called sensationlism.  A sincere attempt to help others does not come with an inflammatory intent. Based on your response, I am sure you understand the difference. Your own statement reads the "post did work". If it was not your intenet, you should consider based on your own observation how your words will be taken on MM, or anywhere in life for that matter. Tony's point is more valid-everyone needs tho think safety first. In a time where photographers are under increased scrutiny, making it more challenging to maintain a livelihood-a title "Photographers and Murder" may not be well received, not matter how well intended.

Samcmahon wrote:
You people are amazing. And I don't mean that in a good way.

My one complaint about the people on this site is their need to criticize and make a mockery out of EVERYTHING. It gets old pretty fast.

The only reason I haven't joined in the mocking is that i was busy editing photos while all the really good snark was getting used up...Next time someone posts about the sky falling I'll be sure to arrive earlier.

Philip of Dallas wrote:
If someone is going to get murdered, statistics show it will most likely be by someone they know. So I would caution everyone to avoid people they know.

Perfect....

KM von Seidl wrote:

Your post unfortunately follows another post by a model pronouncing "ill-intent" of an unnamed photographer on MM.

Following her proclimations of what happened came about 12 photographers piling on, agreeing that this photographer was obviously up to no good.

Hi, KM  I recall that thread.  Very sad indeed because as usual it was photographers bashing photographers when not only did we not know the whole
story it to me seemed fishy.  A model who removes her profile but not before
on her way out getting a photographer banned and of course we have our MM
psychics who know what other photographers are thinking.  Its so sad that
without any evidence people are so ready to believe the worst about others.
What does that say about us?  Not that it will really matter because in a day
or two another photographer will be 'outed' and or banned and as usual there
will be those ready with pitchforks.  I'm proud to say I'll miss that party.

As it turned out there was a different side to the story, and the truth?

The truth was that not only models but mainly photographers were only way too happy to assume that anyone but them is a serial rapist or murderer.

I think that's kinda a sad indictment myself.

Samcmahon wrote:
I have to disagree, my Title for the post DID work. It just didn’t work in a positive way.

Soooo . . . it worked or it didn't?

If your purpose was to elevate the attention of models and educate them as to things they should be aware of, it seems to have failed completely.  Despite requests, you have not offered even a smattering of a suggestion as to what models should do differently except "be aware" of the Big Bad Photographers out there.  How, exactly, is that a helpful message.

On the other hand, it is said that there is no such thing as bad publicity.  I disagree, but for those who don't, you did bring a lot of negative attention to yourself.  So yes, on that basis, "it worked".  You got attention.

Please spare us from any more things "that work" unless you have some positive contribution to bring to the forum.

Samcmahon wrote:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/07/25/bill.bradford.ap/index.html?section=cnn_topstories

I thought this link was a good reminder for models to be extra careful of who they work with. If it happened then, it can certainly happen now.

I posted a link to a story I thought was worth reading. There was no intent to scare, make nervous or offend anyone. It's obvious the title of my post is a touchy subject. Let me break this down for all of you.

1. "Photographers and murder?" = Catchy, made to grab attention
(It's like when ppl use the title, "SEX" to catch the attention of the readers yet the post has nothing to do with sex. Get it?)

2. "If it happened then, it can happen now" = Again, catchy. Meant to intrigue the reader to click on the link.

This post of "caution" can be aimed at anyone depending on how you look at it. This serial killer specifically targeted models, and he just so happened to be a photographer, hence the relation between the link and this site.

Don't take the post personal. Don't read too much into it. If you want to read it, then go ahead, if you don't want to read it, then don't. And if you are really interested in the advise I give to other models, then send me a msg.

Ok, that's all I have to say. Please, don't let me interrupt the mockery. You may continue.

Samcmahon wrote:
...I thought this link was a good reminder for models to be extra careful of who they work with. If it happened then, it can certainly happen now.

I love these kinds of posts.  I really do.



Let's consider for a moment:  Statistically speaking, a woman is far more likely (excessively so) to be raped, molested, kidnapped, or killed by a significant other or family member than by a stranger.

With that in mind, who actually fits the profile of a model's potential molester/rapist/kidnapper/killer?  A photographer she doesn't know (a stranger)...



...or that would-be criminal (statistically speaking) she insists on bringing to a shoot commonly referred to as an escort...?

E|||B wrote:

Teen admits highway shootings, police say
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/07/25/highwa … index.html

I thought this link was a good reminder for models to be extra careful of driving on the highway. If it happened then, it can certainly happen now.

That happened about 20 minutes from me. I had a tire on my car shot out around the same area a few days before. Scared the crap out of me when I saw it on the news.

Samcmahon wrote:
I posted a link to a story I thought was worth reading.

Why is it worth reading?  What exactly about this story makes it "worth reading" here on this venue?  What message contained within it is sufficiently interesting to this group to make it "worth reading"?

Could it be that it is "worth reading" because of the implied threat contained in "it could happen now"?  If not, why say it (other than to get attention)?  Did it never, ever enter your head that such a story could be taken as an indictment of photographers, and a warning to models, when read in this venue?  Are you really that clueless?

No, I don't believe it.  It seems to me only one of two things could reasonably be true:  (1) you intended this as yet another shot in the Big Bad Photographers paranoia war, or (2) you are such an attention whore that you don't mind who you annoy, as long as someone pays attention to you.

As you say, "it's working".

Samcmahon wrote:
I thought this link was a good reminder for models to be extra careful of who they work with.

But no paranoia there.  Oh no!

Envy wrote:
I think I will just stay in this evening and go tommorow on his day off. It's better to be safe than sorry.

doesn't that mean he has the day off to follow you around?

Michael Anthony wrote:

doesn't that mean he has the day off to follow you around?

He can come into my workplace during the day if he wants. But, I carry with me mace, a baseball bat, nunchucks and I have an escort with me at all times.

A girl can never be too careful.