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European photographers vs. American photographers
Hate me if you dare, but I'm going to say it. (I couldn't find an old post about this, but tell me if there is.) European photographers are better than American photographers. Now, let me explain what I mean by better.... When I browse photographers here, the following is going through my mind: "eh..... no.... wtf..... nice.... ok.... maybe if I was drunk (j/k).... what are they doing here?...... no..... no...... yeah, this one's cool!....... eh......" And then I check out the European photographers, where the first one's good, and the next one's even better. Their work has more intensity to it, it's a lot more visually grasping. It also looks like there's a lot more thought process going on into making each image. Yes, I am generalizing what is going on. Of course, it must be taken into consideration that this site is based here, so it might not be as popular in the other hemisphere.... but have you seen European magazines?? Agree with me? If so, why is this? Disagree with me? Go ahead, I'd love to hear your opinion as well!! Take care all, Anya Jul 01 06 09:34 pm Link If you have been to Europe it will change your idea of beauty. So asking on here you might not get a even amount of people that truly understand. I thought I knew beauty, being born and raised in Malibu beach and So cal, I thought I knew beauty till I moved to Europe. So I totaly agree with you. We live in a cosmetic culture. Padding and make up. Europe is first natural beauty. The photographers, models are miles ahead of the typical Maxim FHM generic stuff from the states. Our stuff all looks the same. Model with tons of make up, fake boobs, posing. Your post is refreshing. I find that most all major high fashion is done by European photographers. And the american photographers who shoot it live in New York and spend several weeks/months in Europe. If you have never been to Europe, dont go thru this life without having gone there atleast once. You will fall in love with all of it. Jul 01 06 09:41 pm Link I know YOU have been, and born there. I am directing that others should go to the readers. Jul 01 06 09:43 pm Link Europe has and maintains a tradition and history rich in culture. They are born, bred and live in a more conscious, natural way than we Americans do. And it reflects in their work, their life, their outlook, their photographs. So far, I do agree with the original posters comments that European photographers do have the edge. To generally say one is better than another is not fair, as I've worked with some insanely talented US photographers. But there is another level of something much purer and different that I see coming out of Europe. And the European photographers I've worked with have been an absolute dream to shoot with. They are so much more focused, serious and really into the business of art in their work. Fashion wise....basically everything originates in Paris or Milan and then comes to the US, in which New York is our comparable fashion hotspot. The only thing the US has over Europe is we have Hollywood. There is no Hollywood equivalent in Europe...the glitter and glamour of the silver screen are truly US. And Hurrel was one of America's treasures, for sure. Jul 01 06 09:55 pm Link I dunno. When I can get my photographs to portray in reality the abstraction that I have in mind, it's a good day. I suppose if I'd been born in Spain or Italy or Norway, I'd be able to do that better. It's unprovable, though. Jul 01 06 09:58 pm Link The same could probably be said about European models, in general of course Jul 01 06 10:01 pm Link I stopped using the word better because I strongly believe tht it's a matter of ones opinion but the European style of pretty much everything is extremely different then here in the States. I was born and raised in Europe so coming down here was a shoock to an extent. In my opinion, American styles, whether it be photogrphy, cars, packing is very bold and obvious. European seem to have a little more air and flare to it. I guess the best way to illustrate it would be to say that American style looks like IBM computers, while Euro is more like Apple. Jul 01 06 10:01 pm Link I think a couple things are in play in regards to this site, one being that there is a greater percentage of beginning US photographers than Europeans here. So I think that affects perception. Secondly, arts education in the US is for shit. For many US citizens their idea of art comes from thumbing through a well used copy of FHM or Stuff magazine. I'm horrified at the level of ignorance most people in the US have in regards to art history, architecture, art techniques, etc about the only place where there is an awareness of art culture is via mass media airwaves, and that's commercialized music, TV and motion picture. Lastly, despite claims to the contrary, I don't really think most people in the US respect people that think too differently from the herd. It makes folks nervous. So does looking beneath the obvious and the surface. Nuances and subtlety is weak, the US is all about bold and brash. All these aspects have an affect upon the way people see their world and thus their attempts to express it. Jul 01 06 10:13 pm Link No question European Photographers are better than American sorry..... Gueritos Jul 01 06 10:16 pm Link Well I'm Irish (born in Dublin and emmigrated at 28) but I live in Texas so maybe one day I will be half good - but you should check out my friends work. He has been shooting for around a year, he is from Spain but grew up in Australia and now lives in North Carolina https://www.modelmayhem.com/member.php?id=59023. My father is an artist (pic of him in my profile) and I studied art in Secondary school and it was pretty intense in the depth of knowledge and it bored the _ out of me, but it was a fantastic grounding + you sound semi intelligent then at an opening night in a gallery and you feel the urge to make an 'artistic' comment on one of the pieces Jul 01 06 10:25 pm Link I don't think they are better.....just different in their outlook......and from what I've seen.....especially by some recent German photographers.....more in tune with form and graphic design..... Jul 01 06 10:25 pm Link My only encounter with an European photographer was in a meeting at a designer's studio I rented a room from where I met the older German gentlemen with an astonishing reputation and internationally acclaimed status for being an absolute genius. And, he wanted to work with me. For Gods sake, his portfolio was absolutely amazing. I just wish I could remember his name... ...wtf am I dumb? Jul 01 06 10:45 pm Link That is an generalization. I feel your pain, I come from a country just to the left of the country in which a lot of women have a name similar to yours. Coming from Europe I was disappointed by limited number of flavors of American photography. Evans, Weston, Winogrand, Karsh (chill Canadians), Eggleston, Mapplethorpe. Very chronological and literal stuff but nevertheless it reached levels of mastery that very few European photographers reached. There was no Rodchenko, Brandt, Man Ray (he was an American but not an American artist), Brassai just to mention a few names known in this country. There were many that Americans never heard of and even if they knew them they would have been relegated to the Saturday Night Liveâs âShprocketsâ category. For those not familiar with the reference: the âShprocketsâ is a sketch parody of a, presumably German, TV art show, on shown here on a popular comedy show called Saturday Night Live in which everyone is wearing black turtlenecks, smokes cigarettes, is very pretentious, artsy, and makes no sense at all. Itâs hard to talk about fashion photography because just like fast food and movie industry is very homogenized and by itâs nature shallow and vain. Still I think that French Vogue is much less Playboy than American Vogue. When I came to this country I was shocked that a, supposedly serious, film critic would bother to write about movies like one of the Star Wars episodes right after reviewing âRanâ by Kurosawa. Yes children Iâm talking about mid eighties. To understand American culture you have to understand the concept of the âAmerican junkâ as one person explained it to me. American junk is democracy, itâs equality, itâs a culture that grew out of simple settlers of the west, descendents of slaves and immigrants from all over the world. European art is, as they say in business world, a top down paradigm - lazy, pretentious, bigoted aristocrats educating the masses which their ancestors starved to death just a couple hundred years ago. Neither one is better â they are just different. You should consider yourself lucky, at least now there are "Sundance" and "IFC" channels on cable. Jul 01 06 10:58 pm Link ART OF ARIANE wrote: Spoken like a true American. You tell them girlfriend. Jul 01 06 11:01 pm Link Every country in europe definetly has it's own syle and it is a matter of taste. It would be interesting to throw South American photographers into the equation. I have seen some amazing stuff coming from down south. and no I am not Latino (Irish American actually) Jul 01 06 11:01 pm Link Gerry Hanan wrote: From Dublin? Wait ... ehem... what's the story mate? Jul 01 06 11:08 pm Link James Tennery wrote: Yes and to add to that Japan China Korea and Vietnam. And no I'm NOT just talking fashion magazines. Jul 01 06 11:09 pm Link James Tennery wrote: There are other places that we don't know squat about. Asia, Africa. I'm sure they must have a couple of photographers there. Jul 01 06 11:12 pm Link KM von Seidl wrote: Well, Jul 01 06 11:29 pm Link ART OF ARIANE wrote: Jul 01 06 11:50 pm Link ART OF ARIANE wrote: Hollywood is our problem not our benifit. That is what ruins our culture. Jul 01 06 11:57 pm Link Europe's apprach to Fashion is much different. In fact I pride myself on looking at more of European fashion magazines then I do on American ones. The style is different. I tend to shoot on that school of thought. Getting models however is not always easy as the images seem differen then what they are used to getting from their other shoots. But I still post and ask..... and ocasioanly get some great work with models that can recognize the difference. -Marek Jul 01 06 11:58 pm Link ART OF ARIANE wrote: WORD!!!! Jul 02 06 12:00 am Link Anyutik69 wrote: Alfredo Torres wrote: Non, non, et non! We're not "better",..., we're simply different! Jul 02 06 12:07 am Link Here is my portrait of one of my my faves Elliott Erwitt who was born in Paris. He is best known for his big dog (just its legs) small dog photo. But my favourite is a triptych. 1. A man is surrounded by people in the street. The man is talking to them. A dog is on one side. 2. Same as in 1. except dog urinates (I don't remember if it is a fire plug) 3. Same as in 1 except dog is walking away from frame. This photograph works on many levels including how unimportant we humans are in the scheme of things. But best of all you then find out the man is Nelson Rockefeller and he is running for vice president of the US! Jul 02 06 12:20 am Link And there is another European-born (Latvia) photographer that just a few might recall. Philippe Halsman took 101 Life Magazine covers and is best known for his iconic portrait of Einstein. Even fewer might recall his glorious Life cover of an unknown starlet called Grace Kelly. It was Halsman who discovered her and convinced those at Life to put her on the cover. Halsman's wife, Yvonne is much alive and really protects her husband's copyright so few of his pictures are on the web. I don't have the time to scan one from my Halsman book. Alexwh Jul 02 06 12:33 am Link FML-Photography wrote: Please explain. Jul 02 06 12:39 am Link The irony is that Europe eats up our Hollywood driven culture, not to mention our McD's fast food. Most of the ROW as well. I prefer variety. Listing individual artists that confirm or deny the generalization doesn't go too far, I mean it's a generalization after all, but I love to think about their work when I hear the names, lol. (or look them up if I haven't heard of them) Jul 02 06 01:22 am Link I'm a relative newby to photography, and I learn a lot from the net and observing other people's great work. But in this thead, I think I've seen one link as an example of a European photographer's work. I'd love some links or something. Otherwise, this will just turn into an anti American rant. Help us novices out please. I'll start with one outstanding photographer...Fotorat! Don't know his MM# but it's easy enough to look up. Any others? Mayhem #7367 Jul 04 06 01:49 am Link Anyutik69 wrote: hi Jul 04 06 01:55 am Link I think...they are all the best (American/European) photographers. I especialy admire the one's that take great photos, but truthfully I prefer the Japanese. Jul 04 06 01:58 am Link Alfredo Torres wrote: Hi Jul 04 06 01:59 am Link I met Elliott Erwitt when I lived in NYC! What a dry sense of humor! I think the difference between Eurpoean and American photography in general is the Europeans have an edge and lack of inhibition in their work that is fueled by the relative freedom from Victorian prudishness over there. If the general atmosphere here were to allow more free expression and edginess on the part of commercial artists and photographers. I'd bet you wouldn't see such a difference. Jul 04 06 02:10 am Link Le Beck Photography wrote: This is a very Interesting post, I believe that âEdgeâ comes from approaching photography or making a photograph as more of an artistic endeavor, rather than a factual document recording of a subject. I personally seem to have far more European customers for my work, than in the States. Jul 04 06 02:56 am Link Marie Spring wrote: Hello Marie Spring, Jul 04 06 03:05 am Link What an interesting thread !! It certainly makes a change from the 'digital is better than film' threads.. As a European photographer, I'm quite suprised by the original poster's candour in the matter.. I suppose we do come from an artistic and cultural background going back many hundreds of years, and all across the continent. If you look deeper into European subculture, the great artists of the 16-18th centuries were all steeped in religion, as the various churches funded 'art' as a means of wealth. This may help to explain our passion for diversity. Art education in the state system is also crap. It's only the few that get to study it at university, certainly here in the UK.. We probably have the opportunity to study more influences, as we're that much more integrated as a continent, with so much travelling available these days.. I'm not entirely convinced that we're 'better'..we may do things a different way. We may also have a more liberal society, which allows us to be 'Edgy', and push our boundaries a little further than you. It's something I try to acheive with each shoot. I'm fortunate that in my job, I get to travel to the US fairly regularly - and have already been contacted by a few US models wanting to work.. There's good and bad in all places, and it's easy to beleive the 'Grass is Always Greener'. Look at some of your own, homegrown talent, and consider your good fortune that we both live in Countries where we have the freedom to practise our hobby/profession and arts in such a free and experimental way. Jul 04 06 03:39 am Link SimonL wrote: Here's an observation... Europeans tend to understand some underlying image, and you might describe that as the hidden fantasy or message behind the picture, out of a long and widely understood tradition of concealed meaning in art. The understanding of that extends even to the non-artistic European viewer. Culturally Europeans, artist and non-artist, are exposed to that from childhood in may forms. They see, and more importantly understand, the distinction between a kiss on the cheek and on the mouth, or, on the hand or on the breast; or the placement of a hand on one breast or both... or neither; the positioning of objects within the frame to conceal or reveal and often in specific ways - buttoned up versus partially buttoned up versus unbuttoned; turning the model this way or that, gazing up or down, left or right, looking into the foreground or the distance, and where there is a specific historical meaning in each of those subtle elements and movements. There are even visual jokes to be played out... arising from various cultural and artistic traditions in each country. Jul 04 06 06:17 am Link modaphoto wrote: Jul 04 06 06:34 am Link Rome was a life changing experience for me, the photographer that did my parents wedding pictures there was absolutely fantastic. Jul 04 06 07:01 am Link Europeans know how to live in general, art is a part of their lives. In my opinion every American should spend at least one summer in Europe, it would really help y'all get over your issues. Jul 04 06 07:04 am Link |