Lapis wrote:

Just going by the title.......

Well I didnt mean kill her literally , I meant would porn end her fashion career.

Lapis wrote:
.

Do I take it that my remark "killed "our little conversation ......

Scorching Images wrote:
OH! And the biggest one is Jenna Jameson. Did porn and still does yet makes FHM's top 10 last 3 years in the row. BEATING out most of those "supermodels". She even hosted the Skike TV Video games Awards...didn't see Tyra Banks there. She's now worth over 30 million  and some change!

Tera Patrick was a Ford model and on the cover of Vogue like 3 times before she was 18 and when she tunned 18 did porn and now is doing even better and is CEO of 3 different companies she has created.

Yes - Tera Patrick is successful now.  But would you call her a Supermodel on the same level as Gisele Bundchen and Gemma Ward and Naomi Campbell?

JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER

Legacys 7 wrote:
mainstream doesn't mean Fox Abc and cbs. Just look at the rock videos and rap videos over the years, porn stars are now seen in these videos. guys like ron jeremy is now a celebrity to the public. it's more mainstream because decades ago, porn was more of in the closet and taboo thing that was primarily men would go to theaters in big cities, NYC, Chicago, detroit etc. to see. women wouldn't be dared be seen and caught up in these places unless their man tried to get them to go.

when the video stores were the in thing during the 1980's, you got to see all types of people that people would never label as viewers of porn. porn was labeled with perverts or just some horney man who looked a paticular way. stereo type. but the video stores changed and exposed all of that. i remember reading a news report in the newspaper about a video store. the lady who ran the video store exposed the clients who come in to rent these videos


quote: most of our money is made from the x-rated videos. you'd be surprised to see who is renting these moies. business men, women, all from different life styles etc. end quote.


now with the internet, cable tv, satelitte and many other avenues, porn is avalable to damn near everyone. it is now becoming part of the 'norm'. when you start seeing people like pamela anderson (another that i don't want to see), paris hilton and others, some how 'accidently' have their 'private' videos aired on the internet, it is a sign of the times. celebrities making movies to get more controversy aka exposure is a great way to get more money because people are weak for gossip, rumors and they want to see. amazing. porn is now part of the mainstream.

This is an argument that has been put forth by more than one participant in this thread. 

However, this discussion isn't about what is or what isn't acceptable in the popular culture.  It's about what is or isn't acceptable to the "powers that be" in the Fashion Industry.

JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER

Garry k wrote:

Yet somehow mysteriosly both Pammy and Paris have become household names > Outside the fashion world Giselle has not ....You see a lot more photos of Pammy adn Paris in the media than you do of Giselle

You see Al Qaeda mentioned all over the place, but does that make Osama bin Laden a Supermodel?

Do you see the logic-disconnect there?

JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER

gdsandy wrote:
How can porn be considered a career killer?  What about drugs?  After an initial hiccup, supermodels recover their status and income quite easily from something that is far more damaging to people's well being.

Really now?  Name ONE Supermodel who has appeared in a moving or still image involving either a "spreadshot", penetration or a "money shot" and STILL retains her Supermodel status.  I'm not talking about "Super Porno Model" here and I'm not talking about the "someone stole my PRIVATE videotape of me having sex" variety.

JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER

Marko Cecic-Karuzic wrote:
99% likely, yes, they'll still have a career, for sure...

"Fashion" is multi-faceted, and where some doors close, others open. Net result... probably not much.

Yes, but what kind of career?  "Fashion" Supermodel or "Super Porno Star"?

JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER

Ty Simone wrote:
That is a question that will spark some heated debate.
The question is first, how do you define sucessful.
I have met a model that makes enough money to live, albeit not as comfortable as I do, without taking her clothes off, at least as of the last time we spoke.
She did however mention that she would have been gotten a lot more opportunities and money, had she been willing to do nudes (implied)

As I stated elsewhere, all of the top 100 money making models have posed at least implied.
Notably though, Anna Kornikova, although not a model, has made enough from both print and commercial advertising, without removing any clothes. But, she made her name in tennis first.
Had she not been a tennis star, I do not think she would have made anywhere near as much money purely modeling.

I can tell you of other models that have made decent sums, one of which made more money in one sitting than most models make in a career, without taking clothes off.
For the most part though, those models are a rare specialty type thing, at least at this point in the game.

So, to answer your question, odds are greatly against it.

Ty, you've debunked your own argument by mentioning Ana Kournikova.  I have yet to see a fashion editorial featuring penetration or "money shots". 

And one of the girls on my portfolio not only will NOT do nude, she won't even do see-through - and yet she has her own page on the website for Vogue and W magazines (Style.com), has been doing Paris catwalk only six months after testing with me (going on two years now) and has gotten the cover of Russian Vogue!

JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER

Brad Starks wrote:
Companys such as VS have made a market and billions of dollars off of "soft core" underwear shots of their products. VS knows that most of the country say one thing and do another especially when it comes to sex and related topics. The USA buying majority are prudes.

VS is one of the biggest brands and I dont think they would use anyone that did any type of "hardcore" porn. Have you seen any top porn stars in Channel ads? I dont think so. Paris Hilton is a "super rich" personality and not a model. Kate Moss is a "little bad girl" supermodel that everyone knew she was a big drinker and party animal. She lost a few big clients but her PR went back up after she made a return vist to rehab.

The public love a come back story but if youre doing porn.....I dont know.
Kate Moss is doing fine and back out front but that's not a result of her durg use. She was popular and people wanted to see if she would go wild or blow it all and that was why she got so much attention. It seems that anyone that make the STAR, or ENQUIRER magazine are instant attention getters but they cant build careers on that.

Why would a supermodel like Giselle want to do hardcore porn? I dont think anyone is dumb enough at this point to get caught on tape anymore although I'm sure it will happen again soon.

Thanks Brad - I wish I could have said it better.  Kudos to you - unlike a lot of the people responding to this thread, you've actually used "Occam's razor"!

JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER

Scorching Images wrote:
No. Most models if not ALL the major players have posed nude at one time. The big difference is you pose the question, porn. Now if they had a porn pass, it would just hit the scandal rags and make them even more popular. It will eventually die down and it's back to business. Anyone remember Venessa Williams? It HELPED her career. Went on to be a great singer and spokemodel for commercials and film.

It now seems fashionable to be a super model and THEN do porn. I've been told by people that Pam Anderson made over 20 million on the back end for her porn tape and Paris Hilton made close to 60 million.

Most models worry about doing nudes and always say on their pages here on MM, NO NUDES but when you see their ports, ....nudes!

I always get those same models emailing me to work with me and do nudes and once they are comfortable, they try porn. It's all in a day's work, and they will go a far as they push themselves in their careers, regardless of any repercussions because it's how you deal with it and what YOU make of you future career. Not some nudie pics.

There is a yawning gulf the size of the San Fernando Valley between doing nudes and doing porn.  Again, name one Supermodel who has done a porn gig - i.e. penetration/"moneyshot"/"spreadshot".

JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER

Laurel Lea wrote:

almost every ad u see today is treading the line of what porn is if not just plain old soft porn. look at pefrume and BODY SPRAY commercials? if axe or tag doesnt make you think about wanting sex then i dont know what does. britneys perfume commercials too. almost every ad uses sex/porn to sell. maybe because it works so well that we should just admit that we are a bunch of horndogs because we keep pushing the envelope of what the industries will allow at a given state of society.
p.s.
paris is a skank. i dont think shes attractive either. her face reminds me of a potato. sorry. anything blonde and rich can be famous these days.
no offense to those who actually earn it and are beautiful.

sorry to be off topic...
but can someone explain to me how it became ok to show entire breasts excluding the nipple? is it not a breast without a nipple? is it more acceptable? i dont get it.

Yes - but they don't show actual penetration, do they?

JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER

waynesglamgirls wrote:

And what if she was hooked on crack/cocaine?  Gia was drug addict and yet she showed up on an assigment high.  Kate Moss case in point.

And didn't Jenna Jameson (Porn Star) sign with a major modelling agency a few years back?  The first pornstar to do so.

Really, which agency did Jenna Jameson sign with? 

JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER

Garry k wrote:
Would doing porn ( ie an explicit home video ) kill the FASHION  career of a Supermodel -( lets pick on Giselle for this  one )

Up until a couple of years ago the  conventional thinking was that a foray into porn would kill the fame ( and commercial opportunities ) available to a celebrity - but then along came both Pammy and  Paris's sextapes ..After the shock waves died down both ladies seem to have become more popular than ever. adn in the mainstream market ( whats the latest - they are thinking of casting Paris as Mother THeresa ?)

Neither Paris nor Pammy are supermodels. 
Plus their sex tapes were made/distributed without their consent (originally/presently).
So it's not the same thing as doing consensual porn while being a super model.

Seeing that Pammy made it famous off her ginormous boobs, it won't hurt her.
Seeing that Paris has more money than any porn movie could ever give her it won't hurt her.

John Fisher wrote:


Like Playboy killed the career of an up and coming Cindy Crawford in 1988 (or Stephanie Seymour before she booked Victoria's Secret, or Elle McPherson, or......). Actually Cindy was in trouble after her disasterous appearance in Sports Illustrated (one terrible picture), Playboy probably saved her career. Cindy still has the only black and white cover Playboy has ever run.

Paris doesn't do high end fashion? Hmmm, so who is the new Guess campaign girl?

I always get a kick out of the of the Vanessa Williams story, people are so gullible. How may black finalists had there been in the Miss America pagent prior to Vanessa winning, care to guess? But when she had to give up her crown, who did they give it to? Why that would be the runner up, Elizabeth Charles, who was.....black! Shocked, shocked I tell you, such a scandel! Nudie pictures of Vanessa? For sure no one knew! (The ratings went up 25% the next year, and yes I was shocked, shocked!)

Sex, drugs, and rock & roll, the beat goes on. It's about the buzz, always the buzz. Calvin does kiddie porn commercials, then gets three months of free publicity on every talk show. Kate get caught(??) with coke, loses three campaigns, signs five more. Mainstream advertisers? Who's that girl in the new Nikon ads on TV? The one that ends with: "...and Kate looks pretty good, too!" Does that white line under her nose mean she's doing the "Got Milk?" campaign. Inquiring minds want to know!

Fish(ie)

"Playboy probably saved her [Cindy Crawford's] career."
- I NEVER said appearing in Playboy would kill a model's career!  However, whenever Playboy does a pictorial of a celebrity, they tend to tone down the nudity (i.e. you won't see as much labia as you would if it were a pictorial of a non-celebrity model); an example would be Michel Comte's shots of Shannen Doherty in Playboy not too long ago - not to mention Cindy's, Stephanie's and Elle's Playboy pictorials: they pretty much fall within the realm of "art nudes"

"Paris doesn't do high end fashion? Hmmm, so who is the new Guess campaign girl?"
- Yes, but what other recent high end fashion work of hers immediately come to mind - and how many would that be in comparison to Giselle or Gemma or Heidi Klum, etc.
- A better question would be, "Is Paris Hilton on an upward or downward slope in her career as a FASHION model?"

"I always get a kick out of the of the Vanessa Williams story"
- Someone has already posted that Vanessa overcame that scandal with her combination of charm, talent & persistence and I hereby second that person's argument.

"Calvin does kiddie porn commercials, then gets three months of free publicity on every talk show."
- Yes, but is it technically porn without a display of genitalia, penetration or a "moneyshot"?

"Kate get caught(??) with coke, loses three campaigns, signs five more."
- I'm limiting my argument to porn here; the constant mention of Kate's drug use is irrelevant and is, in fact, a mere "red herring"

Having said the above, I must apologize to the O.P. - Garry - as I seem to have hijacked the thread somewhat.  His original enquiry was specifically about private sex tapes that get stolen and then sold for millions.  My argument here is that choosing to do porn will NOT help a model who is trying to be successful in fashion and could, in fact, end the Supermodel status of a (you guessed it!) Supermodel.

Here's a better question, and the one that I think reveals the heart of all this and that will end this thread for all intents and purposes:

If Giselle Bundchen were to appear in an interracial gang-bang video - complete with double-vaginal and double-anal and capped-off with a "cream pie" and "swallow" - would that end her career as a Supermodel?

JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER

JAY carreon wrote:
This is an argument that has been put forth by more than one participant in this thread. 

However, this discussion isn't about what is or what isn't acceptable in the popular culture.  It's about what is or isn't acceptable to the "powers that be" in the Fashion Industry.

JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER

Indeed .....its not an " I like porn and gee its become more accepted in Middle America " ( and Tera Patrick is on FHMand ROn Jeremy is a "celebrity") thread .....

Savvy1007 wrote:

Neither Paris nor Pammy are supermodels. 
Plus their sex tapes were made/distributed without their consent (originally/presently).
So it's not the same thing as doing consensual porn while being a super model.

Seeing that Pammy made it famous off her ginormous boobs, it won't hurt her.
Seeing that Paris has more money than any porn movie could ever give her it won't hurt her.

Of course they are not supermodels , if they were my question would have been answered no? What they are though is celebitrities , like them or not  ( I prefer not ) who had home videos released of their "sexcapades "AND AND AND -DID NOT SEE THEIR POLULARITY ( including network Televsion ) SUFFER ...So what would be the fate of a Supermodel if the same thing happened ......

JAY carreon wrote:
First of all, neither Pamela Anderson nor Paris Hilton are "Supermodels" - they are "minor celebrities"!

I have to disagree with you there Jay on the "minor" part. Though I hate to in this case. I would think they are major celebrities. Both have had successful modeling and film/tv careers. Now that's not saying that either of them have any talent, but I'm sure they have made more in their careers than anyone on this site has with theirs.

I'm not even sure if I asked someone they would know who Giselle is. I'm sure they would know Paris or Pamela is though.

I didn't see this covered in the thread. I hope I'm not duplicating anyone else.

Aaron

Garry k wrote:

I would offer the opinion that Vanessas post Miss America success had more to do with her charisma and  ability to act and sing ( she has a great voice ) ...those nude photos of her taken when she was a teenager were just another obstacle to overcome

Exactly, and I would think that anyone who is supremely talented can do whatever it is that they want in whatever art form they want to do it in. Talent overcomes everything. Traci lords was not very talented, but she was extremely well known from the senate hearings and the Redbook articles. Paris is rich as all get out. Pamela was/is incredibly popular as a pinup. They can do what they want. If Giselle wants to do porn, I am sure it will be great porn, and she would get an academy award for it.

Steven Bigler wrote:
They haven't yet... but not all of our videos are seen by others!!!!!   :-)

(and NO... I won't show!!!!)

That is why you are so smiley ....

Tell me did you strum on Josie Marans guitar ,if you catch my drift ?

JAY carreon wrote:
Here's a better question, and the one that I think reveals the heart of all this and that will end this thread for all intents and purposes:

If Giselle Bundchen were to appear in an interracial gang-bang video - complete with double-vaginal and double-anal and capped-off with a "cream pie" and "swallow" - would that end her career as a Supermodel?

JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER

Yes.

I can't even believe this is under any kind of serious discussion...

Garry k wrote:
Would doing porn ( ie an explicit home video ) kill the FASHION  career of a Supermodel -( lets pick on Giselle for this  one )

Up until a couple of years ago the  conventional thinking was that a foray into porn would kill the fame ( and commercial opportunities ) available to a celebrity - but then along came both Pammy and  Paris's sextapes ..After the shock waves died down both ladies seem to have become more popular than ever. adn in the mainstream market ( whats the latest - they are thinking of casting Paris as Mother THeresa ?)

SO my question is - If a hardcore home video sex tape of  Giselle were released - would Victorias Secret ( or any other fashion house ) still feature her .......

( I am not asking how many male photogs would add the Giselle sex tape to their collection )

Paris and Pamela aren't the besy examples if you're asking about supermodels. Their reps were already a little less than pure. I think it would damage a supermodels career for sure.

Garry k wrote:
did you strum on Josie Marans guitar?....

I never stroke and tell.

Nerlande wrote:

Electra T wrote:
Adriana.

I'd record it!

Need a fluffer? lol

JAY carreon wrote:
You mean - how many people here are so desperate for an immediate pay-off in cash that they would put the torch to their long-term goals as mainstream models by doing spreadshots or having sex on camera?

Even models who do work that still falls within the realm of fashion get dropped from being in the running for major ad campaigns for appearing in certain kinds of imagery. 

There is the case of Josie Maran who was being considered for the "face" of one of the cosmetics companies - but then was taken out of the running because she posed for those infamous Terry Richardson pics.  This didn't end her career because the work she did with him was still considered "fashion" - but she did lose out on the money she would have been paid for that cosmetics contract.

Don't get me wrong - I have nothing against erotica.  But certain "career tracks" within the fashion industry require that you refrain from appearing in certain types of images.

JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER

Jay: This is JUST FOR YOU  ;-P

Quotes from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josie_Maran

Josie Maran (born Johanna Selhorst Maran on May 8, 1978) is an American fashion model and actress. She is also well known for her association with cosmetics company Maybelline.

...SNIP...

A January 2006 Shape Magazine interview with Josie has revealed that she has quit modelling and acting and is now happily living in Hawaii teaching children. She has also started doing yoga, eating organic foods, and has quit smoking.

...SNIP...

Josie Maran is an avowed bisexual. She has spoken of having sex with women, including porn star Jenna Jameson.

Tape Her Up wrote:
I find it interesting that someone who is screaming that porn is being discussed in the Off-Topic forum and that 16 year olds could be subjected to such discussion started a thread about porn here.

Yeah wrap yer head around that one .... Or should I be saying wrap  yer head with ductape around that one....This is  simply a general question - not the  sexually graphic and  gross posting that BCE posted

Further I think that it is good for young models to hear learned opinions that doing porn would kill their potential fashion career


But yer so far gone you cant tell the difference ...

Fuzzybear Photography wrote:
OK here are my observations:

Appearing nude early in your career seems to help a supermodel: Naiomi Campbell appeared nude in calenders since she was a teenager..

After you have achieved a little fame it helps if people find out that you've done some naughty things:

Would anyone have remembered Vanessa William's name if softporn shots of her weren't discovered.

So the perfect maketing techinque seems to be: be naughty but just choose the right time to let eveyone know what you've done.

I know Vanessa Williams was never a supermodel :>)

Vanessa Willimas has been covered in thsi discussion . Its my opinion that her success ( after MIss America ) had to do with her incredible talent as a singer and actress ( and the the soft core porn was just another obstacle for her to overcome)

Nerlande wrote:
Carolyn Murphy has a sex tape out....

what's it doing to her career?

Apparently nothing...

Sex Tape

crypticarts wrote:
Forgive my ignorance, but I do not know Carolyn Murphy.  Perhaps it would be safer to say that it would hurt someone trying to become a household name and benefit a model who already is one?

Eli

this would be her:

Moraxian wrote:
Hmm... let's see.... name any of the last 25 ladies who have been named Miss America?

I would think the first one who comes to mind is Vanessa Williams.  Why?  A poster with her wearing some skimpy lingerie and some handcuffs.

She's had a pretty good career too, as an actress (starring with the Governator in "Eraser" where she gets to wear handcuffs again), model, spokesperson for RadioShack opposite Howie Long, singer...

I don't think it's a real drawback.

Don't forget the lesbian sex pics!
People don't always remember, when the first set of pics of Vanessa in the fetish/bondage gear came out, she tried to do what Cameron Diaz did & lie about releases & ruin the photographer's life.
What saved his @ss was that a SECOND photographer turned up with photos & releases, and in THOSE photos Vanessa was engaged in VERY active girl-girl action, including a shot of her with her face burined in the other model's groin.
I think most people would qualify that as "porn."
That photopgrapher pointed out he had MORE photos of Vanessa (which he never released) and she quietly dropped all of her legal actions after that.

JAY carreon wrote:
Because not everyone is a has a liberal attitude towards sex & sexuality, that's why.  There is room in this world for "prudes" too!

And what a shame that is *sigh*
All they do is make things miserable for everyone else & increase poor mental health & sex crimes by supressing things.

Garry k wrote:
Yet somehow mysteriosly both Pammy and Paris have become household names > Outside the fashion world Giselle has not ....You see a lot more photos of Pammy adn Paris in the media than you do of Giselle

JAY carreon wrote:
I NEVER said they weren't household names.  You mean that they are commonly and widely known in the popular culture.  And you are wrong - they are simply objects of derision.  Lint, fleas and "dirty rubbers" are commonly and widely known too - but would you want to be called any of those?

JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER

And yet they both keep getting movie parts & TV shows & ad campaigns.
They both probably have higher approval ratings than the president right now.
You seem awfully hateful, did they both turn you down?