Forums > General Industry > OF/Nude Art for trade?

Photographer

Adam Thede

Posts: 4

Los Angeles, California, US

I’ve recently started working toward packaging and selling some of my work online. I’d also like to begin submitting for publication to various art magazines. The type of content that monetizes effectively is sexy and often includes nudity, though I prioritize a level of art and quality regardless of the type of content. While my budget is limited right now, I want to build my content offerings in a way that is equitable for everyone involved. For those open to it, I can offer the following for trade:

- Content share (some photos will belong to the model, others to me)
- Revenue share on sets sold
- Other photo/video services (e.g., a different shoot of the model's choice, covering an event, editing, etc.)
- Professional website design/creation/management services
- Professional writing services

In select cases, I can also pay a reasonable hourly rate.

I’m looking to create the following content. Of course, the value of the arrangement would increase with the monetization value of the shoot.

- Fine art implied
- Fine art nude
- Editorial nude
- Erotic art

This could be beneficial for models looking to build their nude and/or fine art modeling portfolio, create more OnlyFans content, or sell packaged sets the same way I am.

Are there female models out there who would be interested in a trade arrangement as described above?  I’m looking for those interested, but also open to thoughts and feedback. Thanks in advance.

Apr 23 24 08:31 am Link

Photographer

Roaring 20s

Posts: 134

Los Angeles, California, US

for feedback, you're reinventing a wheel, this is just TFP and nobody's really cracked the code for making an onlyfans specific trade like which pics are mine, which are yours, as its only been several years of this possibility and prevalance.

everyone wants this, budget constrained or not, to casually shoot with a fun attractive muse in various levels of undress with a side helping of creative expression

I would say their safety or your reputation is an afterthought to people being simply unmotivated in participating in this, especially in LA with the vast distances and obstacles to traverse them, people are not reliable for this. on the flip side, there are SO MANY models that if you want to use your time like this, knock yourself out

Far more reliable to just offer a budget close to the market rate, which is somewhere between $100-$150 per hour. there is a decent amount of talent at $200-$400 as well, but just as talented models that book in volume are available at the lower range.

Apr 23 24 01:24 pm Link

Photographer

Abbitt Photography

Posts: 13564

Washington, Utah, US

I think you will find that a revenue sharing proposition won’t attract many models.  For one, they don’t know if there’s any realistic chance the shoot images will actually produce revenues.   Another issue is that trying to keep track of what revenues are produced and the people involved can quickly turn into a logistical nightmare.  I still get revenues from images produced years ago.  How’s a model to know what you are earning and ensure she’s getting her fair share over time?   

If you think you can make money on your images, simply pay a model having a release and full disclosure to this effect and avoid the headaches involved in revenue sharing.   

I did a few trade shoots with musicians who received images to use to promote themselves and I received images to sell, but they weren’t MM models.

Apr 23 24 06:01 pm Link

Photographer

Patrick Walberg

Posts: 45198

San Juan Bautista, California, US

Abbitt Photography wrote:
I think you will find that a revenue sharing proposition won’t attract many models.  For one, they don’t know if there’s any realistic chance the shoot images will actually produce revenues.   Another issue is that trying to keep track of what revenues are produced and the people involved can quickly turn into a logistical nightmare.  I still get revenues from images produced years ago.  How’s a model to know what you are earning and ensure she’s getting her fair share over time?   

If you think you can make money on your images, simply pay a model having a release and full disclosure to this effect and avoid the headaches involved in revenue sharing.   

I did a few trade shoots with musicians who received images to use to promote themselves and I received images to sell, but they weren’t MM models.

This!  I've photographed many models and musicians.  When shooting musicians at concerts for editorial purposes, no money is exchanged but I'm under agreement that the purpose is for editorial only.  I can't go making posters or t-shirts and selling them.  More often I pay models rather than TFP for the purpose of my using the images to derive an income.  Regardless if it's a band promo shot or a model needing some images I'm photographing for pay, it's often times to provide some sort of "use rights" that are agreed to before the shoot.  The idea that the OP has regarding shared proceeds is a risky one to me.  Anyone can create a business plan that they wish to try, however it just does not guarantee success.

Apr 23 24 06:35 pm Link

Photographer

Adam Thede

Posts: 4

Los Angeles, California, US

Thanks for the feedback so far. FWIW, I don’t tend to have any trouble finding models for TFP shoots, including boudoir and bikini. However, as these would be mostly nudes and for-profit, I thought it unrealistic (and unfair) to expect TFP alone would be fair compensation. I’m attempting to offer services of significant value that would meet or exceed a reasonable hourly rate. This will not work for everyone, but may be a useful arrangement for some, in theory.

I admit that revenue sharing is not my favorite idea for the reasons those above brought up. I would be open to it but wouldn’t do it for everyone.

Obviously, I’d rather be able to just pay everyone outright. If I could do that consistently, I wouldn’t have made this post.

Apr 23 24 07:27 pm Link

Photographer

Abbitt Photography

Posts: 13564

Washington, Utah, US

Adam Thede wrote:
Thanks for the feedback so far. FWIW, I don’t tend to have any trouble finding models for TFP shoots, including boudoir and bikini. However, as these would be mostly nudes and for-profit, I thought it unrealistic (and unfair) to expect TFP alone would be fair compensation. I’m attempting to offer services of significant value that would meet or exceed a reasonable hourly rate. This will not work for everyone, but may be a useful arrangement for some, in theory.

I admit that revenue sharing is not my favorite idea for the reasons those above brought up. I would be open to it but wouldn’t do it for everyone.

Obviously, I’d rather be able to just pay everyone outright. If I could do that consistently, I wouldn’t have made this post.

I think what’s fair is what ever two knowledgeable parties think is fair and agree to. As I said, I’ve had musicians who were ecstatic  to get promotional images from a TF shoot without having to pay.   They were not  revenue sharing, each party being free to profit from the images as they could.    It appears Patrick  has apparently experienced similar.   

I think however when it comes to MM models, what you hope will be attractive and valuable in theory is unlikely to be attractive in reality.  I think you will have much, much better luck just hiring models.   You can debate the theory or value you believe you offer all you want, but I think few models will find that appealing.  I know of a very few photographers here who are able to attract nude models for TF projects that provide exposure for the model (no pun intended) because these photographers have a proven reputation, but these photographers are a very rare exception. 
You are of course free to post a casting call and see what response you get, but I’m willing to bet you won’t get the responses you hope. 

Related, times have changed.  15 years ago, I could line up TF figurative shoots fairly easily.  Since then however selfies are easier and more accepted, digital cameras more common, etc.   The number of photographers keeps expanding.  Being able to provide decent digital images of people doesn’t have the value it used to.  Social media models no longer need photographers like us.

Apr 23 24 08:30 pm Link

Photographer

Adam Thede

Posts: 4

Los Angeles, California, US

Abbitt Photography wrote:
I think what’s fair is what ever two knowledgeable parties think is fair and agree to. As I said, I’ve had musicians who were ecstatic  to get promotional images from a TF shoot without having to pay.   They were not  revenue sharing, each party being free to profit from the images as they could.    It appears Patrick  has apparently experienced similar.   

I think however when it comes to MM models, what you hope will be attractive and valuable in theory is unlikely to be attractive in reality.  I think you will have much, much better luck just hiring models.   You can debate the theory or value you believe you offer all you want, but I think few models will find that appealing.  I know of a very few photographers here who are able to attract nude models for TF projects that provide exposure for the model (no pun intended) because these photographers have a proven reputation, but these photographers are a very rare exception. 
You are of course free to post a casting call and see what response you get, but I’m willing to bet you won’t get the responses you hope. 

Related, times have changed.  15 years ago, I could line up TF figurative shoots fairly easily.  Since then however selfies are easier and more accepted, digital cameras more common, etc.   The number of photographers keeps expanding.  Being able to provide decent digital images of people doesn’t have the value it used to.  Social media models no longer need photographers like us.

I largely agree, which is why I’m not offering TFP or just photo shoots, but other professional services both related and unrelated to photography itself.

Apr 23 24 08:48 pm Link

Photographer

Adam Thede

Posts: 4

Los Angeles, California, US

That said, you may be right that this approach won’t appeal to the MM crowd. Unfortunately, there aren’t any good alternative platforms that I’ve found so far.

Apr 23 24 08:54 pm Link

Photographer

JSouthworth

Posts: 1775

Kingston upon Hull, England, United Kingdom

In the UK it's unusual for models to work to nude levels on a trade or TFP (time for prints) basis, normally the photographer has to pay the model at an hourly rate, typically £30.00 to £40.00 per hour. The reasons for this are related to the laws of supply and demand I think, there are usually more photographers than models.

Apr 24 24 03:16 am Link

Photographer

Bob Helm Photography

Posts: 18907

Cherry Hill, New Jersey, US

Sharing photos is easy, sharing $$ is a bookkeeping nightmare how do you keep track of it?
A simple TFP where you shoot the photos you want and what she wants and you share the photos that she can use on a pay site and you embargo those shots from any pay program you have for a period of time.

OF, like most social media needs a constant feed of content and as such images have a short life of being a draw, days.

Apr 24 24 07:22 am Link

Photographer

Roaring 20s

Posts: 134

Los Angeles, California, US

Adam Thede wrote:
Obviously, I’d rather be able to just pay everyone outright. If I could do that consistently, I wouldn’t have made this post.

Just want to make a note to everyone that OP has reached a conclusion way up here. OP you don't have to rebut everyone that replies, but the thread will likely keep getting more people chiming in over time.

Yeah, with independent models, nudity has a premium attached to it. You can try building rapport with an individual you like, but then you get less variety or extremes in femininity to choose from, or masculinity, that a catalogue of models allows.

If you are tight with agency fashion models they might send you some for something artsy as a "test shoot", but its far more likely that there are tons of covenants and definitely not for commercial use that doesn't involve tightly scrutinized discussion with the agency.

Apr 24 24 11:56 am Link