Simon Rob wrote:
I have bought the trademark name of 2 model agencies local to me. This means under UK law that they cannot trade under these names and that i can sell, lease or use the names I own as I see fit. The thing is how easy is to to find models? I was going to set it up as a website because all orders happen over the internet or phone anyway surely. Or do you think it wiser to simply sell the rights to the companies that should have bought them in the first place or other companies that may want to trade in these names.

Wow.

Simon Rob wrote:
I have bought the trademark name of 2 model agencies local to me. This means under UK law that they cannot trade under these names and that i can sell, lease or use the names I own as I see fit. The thing is how easy is to to find models? I was going to set it up as a website because all orders happen over the internet or phone anyway surely. Or do you think it wiser to simply sell the rights to the companies that should have bought them in the first place or other companies that may want to trade in these names. Any opinions would be helpful.

I have a feeling you may have been scammed.
You may have 'bought' the trademarks (which the way you phrased it seems to mean that they were already existing).
Trademarks in the UK are similar to car Titles in the USA where the owner of the TM must sign a document acknowledging the transfer of the TM and it will be recorded in official gov't records after new owner also signs the document.

If you didn't get that signed document from the previous trademark owner, you're SOL.

Trademarks aren't a 'one size fits all' type of deal either.  For instance the Mirage Hotel and Casino is one of the most iconic names in Las Vegas and they have some of the tightest TMs (they'll go after anyone that comes close to infringing, and they usually win!).  Such is a case of a photographer that used an image of newlyweds posing in front of the infamous volcano which was photographed from the street.  The Mirage won the lawsuit even though the company names wasn't seen in the photo and it was shot from the street (US law makes it legal to photograph anything that can be seen from public property).

Yet there are/were other companies here that use that name.  Mirage Glass, Mirage Cleaners, Mirage Pools... etc.

If the trademarks for said agencies aren't specifically registered under the category of agency, someone else can come along and use the trademark for their agency.  While the registration fees are fairly low, it would still be a burden for the average person to have a registered TM for multiple categories.
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Before you attempt to actually start the agency, you'll probably have to get the appropriate licenses.  I don't have a clue about UK agency laws, but in the USA they vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.  Some jurisdictions require background checks, surety bonds, liability insurance, and a commercially zoned building to operate from.  Other jurisdictions aren't as strict but still probably have some laws that need to be adhered to.

There are also TM regulations that protect established businesses from having to forfeit their name if another entity comes along to claim it.  The case I remember the most is when McDonalds (the American Hamburger corporation) brought a lawsuit against McDonalds Restaurant in Scotland.  The small restaurant won the case because the McDonald name has been used for centuries in Scotland.

SayCheeZ!  wrote:

I have a feeling you may have been scammed.
You may have 'bought' the trademarks (which the way you phrased it seems to mean that they were already existing).
Trademarks in the UK are similar to car Titles in the USA where the owner of the TM must sign a document acknowledging the transfer of the TM and it will be recorded in official gov't records after new owner also signs the document.

If you didn't get that signed document from the previous trademark owner, you're SOL.

Trademarks aren't a 'one size fits all' type of deal either.  For instance the Mirage Hotel and Casino is one of the most iconic names in Las Vegas and they have some of the tightest TMs (they'll go after anyone that comes close to infringing, and they usually win!).  Such is a case of a photographer that used an image of newlyweds posing in front of the infamous volcano which was photographed from the street.  The Mirage won the lawsuit even though the company names wasn't seen in the photo and it was shot from the street (US law makes it legal to photograph anything that can be seen from public property).

Yet there are/were other companies here that use that name.  Mirage Glass, Mirage Cleaners, Mirage Pools... etc.

If the trademarks for said agencies aren't specifically registered under the category of agency, someone else can come along and use the trademark for their agency.  While the registration fees are fairly low, it would still be a burden for the average person to have a registered TM for multiple categories.
-------------------------------

Before you attempt to actually start the agency, you'll probably have to get the appropriate licenses.  I don't have a clue about UK agency laws, but in the USA they vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.  Some jurisdictions require background checks, surety bonds, liability insurance, and a commercially zoned building to operate from.  Other jurisdictions aren't as strict but still probably have some laws that need to be adhered to.

There are also TM regulations that protect established businesses from having to forfeit their name if another entity comes along to claim it.  The case I remember the most is when McDonalds (the American Hamburger corporation) brought a lawsuit against McDonalds Restaurant in Scotland.  The small restaurant won the case because the McDonald name has been used for centuries in Scotland.

No believe it or not its registered under the agent category its simply that the agencies did not buy them in the first place. They cut corners and so thought they did not need to buy them when they did. Most agencies everywhere will have their trademarks just that these agencies did not think they needed to own their names. Why not god knows. Their mistake is my profit.

Simon Rob wrote:
No believe it or not its registered under the agent category its simply that the agencies did not buy them in the first place. They cut corners and so thought they did not need to buy them when they did.

You seem to forget that there's two types of law.  Statutory (aka Civil law) and Common law.
Trademark registration is statutory law.  Trademark protection is Common law.

There are many benefits to registering a trademark, but those benefits aren't absolute and common law can easily supercede them.

Simon Rob wrote:
Their mistake is my profit.

I differ.  Your mistake will be your downfall.

Simon Rob wrote:
You see in the UK you are only protected if you possess a similar trademark so if you did not bother to buy a trademark you are not protected at all. It means that these particular companies wee vulnerable not all companies and that they were honestly foolish not to buy their names when they needed.

None of what you just said is true, therefore doesn't make sense.

Don't take it from me, take it from a leading intellectual property law firm in the UK
https://www.briffa.com/blog/unregistere … 0services. :

"In the UK, unregistered trade marks are protected under common law, which means that a business can rely on its use and reputation to prevent others from using a similar mark in connection with similar goods or services."

"Unregistered trade marks in the UK are protected under the common law of passing off. Passing off is based on the principle that no person has the right to represent their own goods or services as being the goods or services of a third party. For example, if you were to use the BRIFFA brand to mislead consumers into thinking that you were us, that would be strange and we may be able to make a claim for passing off."

"An advantage of using an unregistered trade mark is that there are no registration fees involved, and it can provide a basic level of protection before registration. Also, as the reputation of the mark grows, it becomes more difficult for others to use a similar mark in connection with similar goods or services. Additionally, if a business is unable to register a mark because it does not meet the requirements for registration of the trade mark, an unregistered trade mark may still provide some level of protection."

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You have already (publicly) admitted that the trademark that you purchased is one that's currently used by a well established business, and your intention is to either start an agency in hopes of people thinking that your agency is the same as theirs, or you're going to sell it to capitalize on their name.

That shows INTENT (to defraud) which is much more serious and MUCH EASIER for the original, established agency to prosecute in an infringement case.

Good luck with that!

Simon Rob wrote:
Maybe they will have a change of heart and want to buy it from me

You don't get it, you just don't get it.

You'll be LUCKY if they don't sue your ass into oblivion for Trademark infringement... much less even THINKING they'll buy it from you.

Simon Rob wrote:
or maybe I will need to get some models. So how does one go about getting models?

As the self-proclaimed international expert and author of hundreds of top selling books about Magick and the Occult the answer should be obvious to you.

Cast a fukkin' spell!

SayCheeZ!  wrote:
As the self-proclaimed international expert and author of hundreds of top selling books about Magick and the Occult the answer should be obvious to you.

Cast a fukkin' spell!

__________________________________________
Laughed so hard I almost chocked on my tea.

Simon Rob wrote:
I have bought the trademark name of 2 model agencies local to me. This means under UK law that they cannot trade under these names and that i can sell, lease or use the names I own as I see fit. The thing is how easy is to to find models? I was going to set it up as a website because all orders happen over the internet or phone anyway surely. Or do you think it wiser to simply sell the rights to the companies that should have bought them in the first place or other companies that may want to trade in these names. Any opinions would be helpful.

What are you trying to do exactly, do you want to run a model agency? If so it will certainly need a website.

JSouthworth wrote:
What are you trying to do exactly, do you want to run a model agency? If so it will certainly need a website.

He's clueless.
He's only trying to capitalize on the name of an established business that he has never been a part of or associated with..
He doesn't know the first thing about running a model agency (as evidenced by the question "How do I get models?")
He thinks he could sell the trademark to someone else.

The DUMBEST thing he did is PUBLICLY DESCRIBE HIS INTENTIONS to use another company's established name/trademark/goodwill is if it was his own.

So now, when the REAL model agency sues his ass for every penny he has (and he only has a few of them) he CAN'T CLAIM that he "didn't know" or that it was a "simple mistake" as now they have PROOF that his motives and intentions are to cause dilution or even outright fraud.

Roaring 20s wrote:
OP says "bought" and SayCheez derailed the conversation to suggest he didn't register them but purchased an existing trademark from someone else in a way that wasn't completely sound. OP basically ignored that as I think it went over his head, but he did say he registered the trademark so he is the original owner/creator of the trademark in that case, so the whole thing about purchasing a trademark isn't relevant..

You're correct and incorrect at the same time.
Simon stated he "bought" the trademark.
Typically, when someone says they "bought" a trademark it means they purchased it from someone else.
Similarly, when someone says they 'registered' a trademark, it means they originated one.

Where you're correct is that it doesn't really matter if someone was the creator of the trademark or if they legally purchased an existing trademark. I didn't say or imply that it does.

My reply to Simon included "You may have 'bought' the trademarks (which the way you phrased it seems to mean that they were already existing)"  Simon didn't dispute that.

I preceded that with "I have a feeling you may have been scammed" as I know that there are scammers out there that try to sell trademarks that haven no legal bearing. A Google Search will show that not only are these type of scams more common than most people realize, it's happening more and more because the regulators are overwhelmed.  There are several variations of the scam.

With the limited information as described above, and Simon's lack of understanding how intellectual property laws and registrations work I'm even more convinced that he was taken by a scammer.  I could be wrong, and in many ways I hope I'm wrong because I don't like seeing people get scammed.

With that being said, the UK Intellectual Property Office maintains a website with a database of all trademarks.
https://www.gov.uk/search-for-trademark

There are currently only 5 currently Registered Trademarks for Model Agencies in the UK. There are a total of 12 others that  are either dead , removed, or refused.  There are no "new" registrations, the latest one was 2023 and was refused.  None of them have his name (or known variations of his name) listed as the owner (unless of course he's using a corporate veil, which I highly doubt he is doing).

There are also currently 7 out of 9 Talent agencies currently registered... all with the same result as above.

With all that information, I'm pretty confident that my original statement "I have a feeling you may have been scammed" is pretty accurate.

SayCheeZ!  wrote:
With that being said, the UK Intellectual Property Office maintains a website with a database of all trademarks.
https://www.gov.uk/search-for-trademark

There are currently only 5 currently Registered Trademarks for Model Agencies in the UK. There are a total of 12 others that  are either dead , removed, or refused.  There are no "new" registrations, the latest one was 2023 and was refused.  None of them have his name (or known variations of his name) listed as the owner (unless of course he's using a corporate veil, which I highly doubt he is doing).

There are also currently 7 out of 9 Talent agencies currently registered... all with the same result as above.

With all that information, I'm pretty confident that my original statement "I have a feeling you may have been scammed" is pretty accurate.

It does look that way. That website is useful, although it doesn't have distinct categories for model agencies or talent agencies.

There would be little point in buying a trademark name for a model agency unless you taking over an existing business which does not appear to be the case here.

JSouthworth wrote:
It does look that way. That website is useful, although it doesn't have distinct categories for model agencies or talent agencies.

On the main page click on "Search by keyword, phrase or image." which brings you to:
https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmtext

A different box allows you to check by owners name.

JSouthworth wrote:

SayCheeZ!  wrote:
With that being said, the UK Intellectual Property Office maintains a website with a database of all trademarks.
https://www.gov.uk/search-for-trademark

There would be little point in buying a trademark name for a model agency unless you taking over an existing business which does not appear to be the case here.

Its down under photography because the agency is an editorial agency and the other a  standard agency but may not appear literally newly registered. I have a company so could use as divisions I think.

Dan Howell wrote:
No idea how the UK differs from the US in copyright/trademark/patent law, but in the US we call people doing what the OP is openly admitting as trolls. I can't imagine that it is perceived that differently in the UK.

Interestingly, a photographer turned lawyer was just disbarred for being a copyright troll. Imagine going to all of the time and expense to become a lawyer and throw it all away in less than 10 years.

https://petapixel.com/2024/03/22/hero-o … red-in-ny/

https://www.gov.uk/copyright Explains how you don't need to register to have copyright.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/objecting-t … egal-costs Explains how to object to a trademark. The third party approach is to helpfully point out things: E.g. Would-be-king has no crown to wear in this matter and you observed on a forum him declare what some may describe as deceitful acts and proudly admitted to them.

Copyright is a brilliant British invention. Just after the Union Act was being rolled out and trumpeted, good Queen Anne gave her assent and , in effect declared: how dare people rip off creators, writers, and here I bestow. . . copyright to protect my beloved subjects from baaad men. I think someone may not be from the U.K. as much as they think they are and relate more cheerfully to the mood of a bouncing cheque, bouncing right out of the bank into the rubbish bin. Queen Anne was thinking about ripoff artists when she gave her assent and  said "Let there be copyright." It is known as "The Statute of Anne."

LA StarShooter wrote:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/objecting-t … egal-costs Explains how to object to a trademark. The third party approach is to helpfully point out things: E.g. Would-be-king has no crown to wear in this matter and you observed on a forum him declare what some may describe as deceitful acts and proudly admitted to them.

I don't think the OP can comprehend what was stated, so I'll put it in much easier language for him to understand.

The link is for the general public to report trademark violations even though the person reporting the violation is not involved.

Because the OP openly admitted that he bought the trademark to use the reputation of the actual well established agency for his own gain ANYBODY can report him and use this thread as proof of infringement with the will to deceit.

(I still think he 'bought' it from a scammer that has no rights to any of the above in the first place)

SayCheeZ!  wrote:
On the main page click on "Search by keyword, phrase or image." which brings you to:
https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmtext

A different box allows you to check by owners name.

This is the page which allows you to search by the owner's name;

https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmowner

There is nothing listed for Simon Rob and Durham central postcode DH1 4EE, but he may have a slightly different postcode depending on where in Durham he is located.

Searching for "Model Agency" on the search by text page produces this result;

https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmtex … lts?page=1