Elm Creative wrote:
I'd appreciate getting a perspective from both models and photographers on this question.  A few models list their OnlyFans along with the other locations where a photographer can see more of their portfolio. (Such as Instagram, FB and their personal website.)

Are these paid sites listed as a potential resource for photographers looking for the right model?   Otherwise why are they listed?   (I hope it's not just to pick up a few subscribers.)

Here's what happened with our company recently. We are working on a project that will involve some tasteful nudity. We identified one potential model who indicates she "Shoots Nudes" and had several photos along that line on her MM page.

A section called "Want to See More of My Work as a Model"  included the usual sites along with an OF account.
We wrote "I looked through your MM, web and insta pages to get some ideas and was impressed by the variety of your portfolio.  I could not open Only Fans.   Is there a temporary password you could share with me?"

The response we got back was  " I don't do free access to my OF for potential bookings but you are welcome to join if you are interested."     

So I'd appreciate your input in case a similar situation comes up again. I assume MOST models list specific pages and portfolios on MM to help photographer visualize how they would be a good fit for an assignment.  Correct?  Just checkin'

Excellent question!  I think OnlyFans is dying down in popularity.  It was huge at the time during the covid pandemic when people were stuck at home.  In the early 2000's I used to run a model website that required going through cc billing to purchase passwords to access it.  I know some models who are on OF who have various success in making money.  Not everyone is doing well on it. Now I see more models making two profiles.  One is "free" and the other is accessed by paying. 

Back when I was in the business, it was possible to create a password to allow visitors to access without paying.  Looking at the billing system that OF has set up, I don't know if the creators are able to make free access passwords for friends or business associates.  I'm using Facebook more often than any other platform because of the ability to do face to face calling and live streaming.  That way I can confirm that the person is real.  With AI I am seeing more and more FAKE profiles. I don't book models until I have spoken with them.  Facebook allows me to do that and more. Modelmayhem has fallen far behind the times in regards to messaging, but at least I can host nudes on here. You do want to see those if that is what you are hiring for in a nude modeling job.  I can't do that on FB or Instagram.

Elm Creative wrote:
Are these paid sites listed as a potential resource for photographers looking for the right model?   Otherwise why are they listed?   (I hope it's not just to pick up a few subscribers.)

A section called "Want to See More of My Work as a Model"  included the usual sites along with an OF account.
We wrote "I looked through your MM, web and insta pages to get some ideas and was impressed by the variety of your portfolio.  I could not open Only Fans.   Is there a temporary password you could share with me?"

The response we got back was  " I don't do free access to my OF for potential bookings but you are welcome to join if you are interested."     

So I'd appreciate your input in case a similar situation comes up again. I assume MOST models list specific pages and portfolios on MM to help photographer visualize how they would be a good fit for an assignment.  Correct?  Just checkin'

Model Mayhem is a site where non-members can view pretty pictures and naughty nudies (unless a member has their profile set to "members only.")

Here on MM there are three audiences... photographers looking to hire models, guys looking to get their dicks hard, and photographers looking to get their dicks hard. Why wouldn't someone with an Onlyfans page monetize the audience?

If, as a photographer, you've looked through a model's "MM, web, and insta pages" and were impressed by those, what more do you need to see to make a hiring decision?

Elm Creative wrote:
I'd appreciate getting a perspective from both models and photographers on this question.  A few models list their OnlyFans along with the other locations where a photographer can see more of their portfolio. (Such as Instagram, FB and their personal website.)

Are these paid sites listed as a potential resource for photographers looking for the right model?   Otherwise why are they listed?   (I hope it's not just to pick up a few subscribers.)

Models have long had their own web pages where you could pay to see more reveling work, and Patreon is also a big site where pay per view is the name of the game as is Bent Box.

Why wouldn't a model list sites where she can monetize her images/work? Most models want to get paid for their work, as I assume your company does.

MoRina wrote:
Here on MM there are three audiences... photographers looking to hire models, guys looking to get their dicks hard, and photographers looking to get their dicks hard.

As a photographer, in which category do you fall?   Do you always hire your models, or are you "looking to get your dick hard?"  Just curious...

Also, am I seeing fake profiles of other crew members (MUA's, hair stylists, wardrobe, retouchers, etc.)?  Am I corresponding with an AI bot when I DM an MUA, and is that a robot that arrives at the shoot to do makeup?

MoRina wrote:
If, as a photographer, you've looked through a model's "MM, web, and insta pages" and were impressed by those, what more do you need to see to make a hiring decision?

As a photographer viewing a model's MM profile, I seek their best and most recent work.  Up-to-date digitals/'roids are exceedingly helpful.  I need to see what a model can do and what a model looks like right now.

The same goes for other crew members, except seeing the most recent work of a crew member is not as important as it is with a model showing no current digitals.

Most of us who are seriously trying to hire or collaborate avoid going to other websites to chase down recent photos of a model.  Often, if anyone setting up a shoot doesn't see what they seek in an MM profile, they won't bother to click outside this website.  Many seem to not understand this basic concept and/or assume that people will automatically go somewhere else to find their best or most recent work.

Just because Instagram/Only-Fans is convenient for you doesn't mean that it's convenient for those who might consider hiring or collaborating with you through MM.

This site is expressly designed to enable and expedite collaboration (and hired work) between talent and crew members, usually within a certain area/locale.  So, if you are an MM member who wants to collaborate or get hired here, it makes sense to put your best and most recent work here -- not somewhere else on the Internet.

Don't give a potential client a reason to dismiss you and click onto someone else's MM profile.

The Other Place wrote:

As a photographer, in which category do you fall?   Do you always hire your models, or are you "looking to get your dick hard?"  Just curious...

I don't know why you quoted me on those other comments you made, but this one made me laugh.

I don't have a dick, as I am female. I wouldn't really call myself a photographer as much as I am a videographer/producer. And yes, I have hired and paid female models through this site.

Model MoRina wrote:
I don't know why you quoted me on those other comments you made,...

I was responding directly to your question regarding "what more do you need to see?"  I stated what I need to see, and, unfortunately, many models (and some crew members) put what I need to see somewhere else on the Internet (where many of us will not bother to go).  Why chase all over the Internet to find other photos of a model, when the model can merely post the relevant photo in his/her MM profile?

Generally, it is not a good idea to make a prospective client jump through hoops just to see your work, especially when you already have a profile on the very website that prospective clients go to find you and others like you in a specific area.

Model MoRina wrote:
... but this one made me laugh.

That was the general idea.

Model MoRina wrote:
I don't have a dick, as I am female.

You don't say!...

Model MoRina wrote:
And yes, I have hired and paid female models through this site.

So have I, and I've also hired other crew through MM.

However, your "three MM audiences" is likely an exaggerated oversimplification of what actually happens here.  Obvious case in point is that there are plenty of female photographers without dicks who shoot TF.  Plus, there are many other collaborative MM members of every gender who are neither models nor photographers -- not accounted for in your "three audiences."

Elm Creative wrote:
I'd appreciate getting a perspective from both models and photographers on this question.  A few models list their OnlyFans along with the other locations where a photographer can see more of their portfolio. (Such as Instagram, FB and their personal website.)

Are these paid sites listed as a potential resource for photographers looking for the right model?   Otherwise why are they listed?   (I hope it's not just to pick up a few subscribers.)

Here's what happened with our company recently. We are working on a project that will involve some tasteful nudity. We identified one potential model who indicates she "Shoots Nudes" and had several photos along that line on her MM page.

A section called "Want to See More of My Work as a Model"  included the usual sites along with an OF account.
We wrote "I looked through your MM, web and insta pages to get some ideas and was impressed by the variety of your portfolio.  I could not open Only Fans.   Is there a temporary password you could share with me?"

The response we got back was  " I don't do free access to my OF for potential bookings but you are welcome to join if you are interested."     

So I'd appreciate your input in case a similar situation comes up again. I assume MOST models list specific pages and portfolios on MM to help photographer visualize how they would be a good fit for an assignment.  Correct?  Just checkin'

MoRina wrote:

Model Mayhem is a site where non-members can view pretty pictures and naughty nudies (unless a member has their profile set to "members only.")

Here on MM there are three audiences... photographers looking to hire models, guys looking to get their dicks hard, and photographers looking to get their dicks hard. Why wouldn't someone with an Onlyfans page monetize the audience?

If, as a photographer, you've looked through a model's "MM, web, and insta pages" and were impressed by those, what more do you need to see to make a hiring decision?

Excellent point. I did not realize until recently that photographers can have their own OF page but according to photographers and models I have spoken with it is a little more difficult for photographers. I don't know why any model or photographer would allow "free" access to a page like that.

Elm Creative wrote:
A section called "Want to See More of My Work as a Model"  included the usual sites along with an OF account.
We wrote "I looked through your MM, web and insta pages to get some ideas and was impressed by the variety of your portfolio.  I could not open Only Fans.   Is there a temporary password you could share with me?"

So you saying that you can't make a casting decision after viewing a MM profile AND an instagram page, so you asked for free access to a model's OnlyFan. Are you comfortable saying that you do not have the insight, experience or perspective to make a decision like that and/or that you are cheap because that is how this post reads.

Wouldn't have been more effective to state what you are specifically looking for and what you are offering as a paid project and allow the model to respond (or not)? You have to appreciate that this model might have been inundated for request for free access or have been burned by photographers with insincere offers in the past.

MoRina wrote:
Here on MM there are three audiences... photographers looking to hire models, guys looking to get their dicks hard, and photographers looking to get their dicks hard. Why wouldn't someone with an Onlyfans page monetize the audience?

I'm curious which category you fit into? Having seen your profile and portfolio, I have a pretty good hunch.

And no, there are other categories of people who come here as well. Some people come here to learn how to grow as a photographer, model, MUA, etc. Others come here to collaborate with others (which is why I come here, on occasion). There are other reasons as well.

Shot By Adam wrote:

I'm curious which category you fit into? Having seen your profile and portfolio, I have a pretty good hunch.

And no, there are other categories of people who come here as well. Some people come here to learn how to grow as a photographer, model, MUA, etc. Others come here to collaborate with others (which is why I come here, on occasion). There are other reasons as well.

I answered this question above. Maybe read through the thread first to see if your question has been answered. I love how you stereotyped me by my work and it didn't even occur to you I am female. Lol

David L. Stevens wrote:

Excellent point. I did not realize until recently that photographers can have their own OF page but according to photographers and models I have spoken with it is a little more difficult for photographers. I don't know why any model or photographer would allow "free" access to a page like that.

Simple the "Free" page is marketing for the paid site and has links that you must pay to see content.
The reason some companies may want to see that content is to see what "pay to view" work the model does to avoid potential problems after booking and since most are $`10 a month it would seem a prudent investment in due diligence to make a one month investment, not to mention it is tax deductable .

For many models it is a major source of income and the main reason they are on social medial

The Other Place wrote:
Generally, it is not a good idea to make a prospective client jump through hoops just to see your work, especially when you already have a profile on the very website that prospective clients go to find you and others like you in a specific area.

They are not "making" you do anything.  They are offering.  If you are curious as to what they have behind a paywall, that's on you.  Either you can choose to pay the money to get a monthly subscription, or you choose not to.  Not sure why that is so hard to understand.

They post their OF to draw more potential for money.  Nothing more, nothing less.  It's just like they post their profile on MM.  They are hoping that a photographer will like their looks, or something they do, and hire them. 

It's just like when you apply for a job.  Why do people post their LinkedIn profile yet you still post a resume in a PDF and fill out their application.  It's just one more platform that you hope someone will look at, be impressed with and hire you.

Nothing more, nothing less.  Don't want to pay to see their OF page, then simply, don't.  It's your choice.  Same with Instagram.  Not everyone uses Instagram.  I hate that platform because now it's less about photos and more about people posting up their food pictures, stupid memes, and irrelevant stuff.  Or how about twitter (or X or whatever it is now). 

The choice is yours as to what you want to view and what you don't want to view.  They are not forcing you to do anything.

AlaskanSeaAdventure wrote:
They are not "making" you do anything.

If the work that I need to see to make a hiring decision is in only at another location than Model Mayhem (or behind a cut/paywall), then I am forced to go there if I want to see that model's/crew-member's work.  So, just to see their work, they are making me go to another site.

Not sure what is difficult to understand about that simple concept.

AlaskanSeaAdventure wrote:
They are hoping that a photographer will like their looks, or something they do, and hire them.

Exactly.  So, why would a model or crew-member put an unnecessary impediment in front of a potential client?

Let's say that I am in a hurry to cast a shoot. and I am considering ten models, all who's portfolios are the type for the job.  One of them and has a thorough portfolio that shows recent work and digitals, while the others have portfolios with no images more recent than 3 years ago, but with notes in their MM profile to go to another site to see recent images.  Guess which most model I am most likely to hire.

AlaskanSeaAdventure wrote:
It's just like when you apply for a job.  Why do people post their LinkedIn profile yet you still post a resume in a PDF and fill out their application.  It's just one more platform that you hope someone will look at, be impressed with and hire you.

No.  That situation is completely different.

In your scenario the prospective candidate is providing the same, pertinent, comprehensive information in two different ways (but not necessarily two different places -- the PDF is on Linkedin).

However, the scenario of this thread involves MM members who do not show the same pertinent work on MM and elsewhere.  Instead, they force prospective clients to go elsewhere to see their different, pertinent work.

AlaskanSeaAdventure wrote:
Don't want to pay to see their OF page, then simply, don't.  It's your choice.

Of course... and models (and anyone else courting clients) who put their pertinent work elsewhere should realize that they are reducing their chances of getting hired, as the client will often make the "choice" to hire someone who's pertinent work is immediately available.

The smart ones who want to get hired will put their pertinent work on MM -- not elsewhere.

The Other Place wrote:
If the work that I need to see to make a hiring decision is in only another location than Model Mayhem (or behind a cut/paywall), then I am forced to go there if I want to see that model's/crew-member's work.  So, just to see their work, they are making me go to another site.

Not sure what is difficult to understand about that simple concept.

What makes you think that the pertinent images and information would be found in content that is generally behind a paywall? Pertinent casting information is more likely found on a model portfolio site like Model Mayhem (such as it is) than is found on OnlyFan. If you don't know or get that, I would really doubt the first sentence of your bio.

Elm Creative wrote:
I'd appreciate getting a perspective from both models and photographers on this question.  A few models list their OnlyFans along with the other locations where a photographer can see more of their portfolio. (Such as Instagram, FB and their personal website.)

Are these paid sites listed as a potential resource for photographers looking for the right model?   Otherwise why are they listed?   (I hope it's not just to pick up a few subscribers.)

What's wrong with trying to pick up a few subscribers?  This doesn't seem any different from photographers whose profiles include a plug for their published books, calendars, magazine features, etc.

Elm Creative wrote:
We identified one potential model who indicates she "Shoots Nudes" and had several photos along that line on her MM page.

A section called "Want to See More of My Work as a Model"  included the usual sites along with an OF account.
We wrote "I looked through your MM, web and insta pages to get some ideas and was impressed by the variety of your portfolio.  I could not open Only Fans.   Is there a temporary password you could share with me?"

The response we got back was  " I don't do free access to my OF for potential bookings but you are welcome to join if you are interested."     

So I'd appreciate your input in case a similar situation comes up again. I assume MOST models list specific pages and portfolios on MM to help photographer visualize how they would be a good fit for an assignment.  Correct?  Just checkin'

It sounds like this model provided ample portfolio material (including nudes) for you to make your booking decision.  In this case, it seems like the model also sharing an OnlyFans link isn't aimed at photographers looking to hire them, it's aimed at whoever likes this model's work and would be interested in paying to see more of it.  You clearly have an objection to this, but I think if this site is about making a living as a model/photographer/crew member, then you're allowed to use MM to target paying audiences that aren't just people looking to hire you for a shoot.

Dan Howell wrote:
What makes you think that the pertinent images and information would be found in content that is generally behind a paywall?

The OP of this thread.  Did you read it?

Dan Howell wrote:
Pertinent casting information is more likely found on a model portfolio site like Model Mayhem (such as it is)...

One would expect that to be so, but it seems that more and more MM members think that it is okay to post pertinent work/info elsewhere and not on MM.  That trend  has been a hot topic on the MM forums, including this thread.

Dan Howell wrote:
If you don't know or get that, I would really doubt the first sentence of your bio.

It appears that one of us might have a reading comprehension problem.

The OP and much of this thread (and many other MM threads) discuss MM members posting pertinent work on other sites, but not on MM.

In regards to the first sentence of my profile, supposed "web savvy" is not a requirement to be a pro photographer.

The Other Place wrote:
The OP of this thread.  Did you read it?

I addressed the OP in another post.

You made two posts referencing yourself and your work.

Still, the idea you need to see OnlyFans content to make casting decisions is laughable, especially in the referred scenario of having both a Model Mayhem and an Instagram profile available.

The Other Place wrote:
If the work that I need to see to make a hiring decision is in only another location than Model Mayhem (or behind a cut/paywall), then I am forced to go there if I want to see that model's/crew-member's work.

No you are NOT forced to do anything.  Is someone holding a gun to your head forcing you to go to Onlyfans?  Nope.  If they don't have enough content on MM to make your decision, then you move on and find someone else.  Or...simply....you pony up the money for a months subscription and check them out.  But they are not forcing you do anything.  It's a free world, meaning the choice is up to YOU!!

AlaskanSeaAdventure wrote:
It's just like when you apply for a job.  Why do people post their LinkedIn profile yet you still post a resume in a PDF and fill out their application.  It's just one more platform that you hope someone will look at, be impressed with and hire you.

The Other Place wrote:
In your scenario the prospective candidate is providing the same, pertinent, comprehensive information in two different ways (but not necessarily two different places -- the PDF is on Linkedin).

Not necessarily.  On Linkedin I might have my volunteer work, awards, certificates, etc.  The PDF resume wont have any of that information.  Yet the hiring manager might not have a Linkedin access.  At the same time I could have my own website with way more information. 

The Other Place wrote:
The smart ones who want to get hired will put their pertinent work on MM -- not elsewhere.

Not necessarily.  My last hire had an MM page, but their instagram was way more recent.  Speaking to the model, they said that 85% of their bookings comes from instagram and their OF page.  The other 15% comes from MM. 

It's well known that MM is on its way out.  Just scroll through the forums and you will see a ton of threads about how models on MM are not returning messages, and like you said, they aren't posting their recent stuff on MM as well. 

You want to hire talent?  You have to go where talent is.  Don't like it, then perhaps this industry isn't for you.  Get off your high horse and stop pretending to be something you are not.  You want a model based upon their looks and you want to see what their recent stuff is, then you have to go where that is.

Bob Helm Photography wrote:
The problem is that the OP think that OF purpose is for models to be booked by photographers. It isn't. It exists to sell access to existing content, something he refuses to acknowledge

Bingo.  OF is not a modeling site.   Nor is it a site for photographers to go through looking for models.  Their search function doesn't exist like that.  It's set up for them to go out and do marketing on other sites and then direct their audience towards it so they can make money off of subscriptions to their page.

If someone is not interested in visiting the site, then simply don't.  It's freedom of choice.  Don't like the fact that a model has an OF page, then don't contact them and don't shoot them.  At the same time, don't degrade them or give them a bad name. 

If I want to work with a model, I am going to work with them if they are willing to work with me.  I could care less if they have an OF page because that's not my type of place to hang out.  It doesn't bother me but apparently some people are so twisted that they can't see the bigger picture.  I am about the art and the experience.  If a model wants to have an OF page and still let me take some art of them, then great.

I don't get it why so many people are upset that models make choices and are individuals.  It's like the stale argument I see time and time again in the forums about some photographer getting upset because a model refuses to do a nude shoot with them, yet they post up nudes in their profile.  Like the model doesn't get a say and they are not a person?  I would question the motive of the photographer at that point.  A good photographer is going to do a shoot nude, non-nude, it shouldn't matter.  If a model says no, then that's that.  Same with the OF.  If you want to see their most "recent" stuff, and you desperately need to, then pay the fee to see their OF page.  It's how they make money.  We should be happy that they are still hanging around on MM.  Otherwise they might just not respond to us.

Anyways that's my two cents.

Dan Howell wrote:
I addressed the OP in another post.

Well, then you should know that the OP stated very clearly in the first two paragraphs:

Elm Creative wrote:
A few models list their OnlyFans along with the other locations where a photographer can see more of their portfolio. (Such as Instagram, FB and their personal website.)

Are these paid sites listed as a potential resource for photographers looking for the right model?   Otherwise why are they listed?

That's the primary topic of this thread.

Dan Howell wrote:
You made two posts referencing yourself and your work.

That's a vague notion.  What does it mean and how is it relevant to this discussion?

Dan Howell wrote:
Still, the idea you need to see OnlyFans content to make casting decisions is laughable, especially in the referred scenario of having both a Model Mayhem and an Instagram profile available.

I completely agree, and that is essentially what I have been saying in this (and other threads).  It's ridiculous for MM members to only put pertinent work on other websites.  Not sure why you are arguing the point with me.

However, I would emphasize that it is also a bad idea for an MM member to exclude pertinent work on MM and instead put that work on Instagram (which seems to be a common practice).  That's just a bad business decision.  Those who include their pertinent work on MM will have an edge over those who don't.

Bob Helm Photography wrote:
The problem is that the OP think that OF purpose is for models to be booked by photographers. It isn't. It exists to sell access to existing content, something he refuses to acknowledge

Yes. Onlyfans is not a booking site. In fact, it is against the terms of service to exchange contact info. The word "meet" in any context is actually a banned word.

AlaskanSeaAdventure wrote:
No you are NOT forced to do anything.  Is someone holding a gun to your head forcing you to go to Onlyfans?  Nope.

Not sure if you fully comprehended my statement which you quoted:
"If the work that I need to see to make a hiring decision is in only another location than Model Mayhem (or behind a cut/paywall), then I am forced to go there if I want to see that model's/crew-member's work."

AlaskanSeaAdventure wrote:
If they don't have enough content on MM to make your decision, then you move on and find someone else.

... And that's exactly what I (and others) do.  That is my point, which I hope MM members will heed.

However, if I want to see an MM members pertinent work that is excluded from their MM profile but included on another site, then I am certainly forced to go to that other site.

It's a simple concept.

AlaskanSeaAdventure wrote:
On Linkedin I might have my volunteer work, awards, certificates, etc.  The PDF resume wont have any of that information.

Why on Earth would you not list your certifications and awards in your resume?

AlaskanSeaAdventure wrote:
Yet the hiring manager might not have a Linkedin access.

Okay.  I can see how a hiring manager would not want to go (nor have access) to Linkedin, especially with a virtual stack of 100 resumes to go through, but that just reinforces my point.  Job candidates had better include all of their pertinent information in their resume -- not on some other website that the hiring manager won't bother to visit.

Again, it is always important to make the pertinent work and information as readily available as possible to potential clients (and employers).  That is my point in this thread.

AlaskanSeaAdventure wrote:
At the same time I could have my own website with way more information.

Well, you'd better have the pertinent information in your resume, or they will never bother visiting your website.  With 100 resumes to sift through, they might take a look at your website if/when you are one of the final candidates.

Additionally, it should be mentioned that a lot of the culling of job candidates these days is done by algorithm (and possibly AI) by the first information that is given on a web form -- so the pertinent info had better be on that initial form -- not on some remote website.

I am not sure what is difficult to comprehend about the importance of making pertinent information readily available to prospective clients -- it's just basic common sense.

AlaskanSeaAdventure wrote:
My last hire had an MM page, but their instagram was way more recent.  Speaking to the model, they said that 85% of their bookings comes from instagram and their OF page.  The other 15% comes from MM.

Three points here:
   1.  Those numbers are from a single anecdote;
   2.  MM members are not renowned for their skills in the field of statistics;
   3.  Most importantly, those statistics ignore a crucial variable -- how did those clients find that model on Instagram?

Instagram doesn't organize nor categorize models and crew in the exceedingly thorough and useful way that MM does.  I can do a search on MM for a model of a certain build, eye color, hair color, ethnicity, preferred photography genre, etc., but the most essential criterion is that I can focus the search to my area.

So, how does one find models in a certain area on Instagram?   The best answer that I have heard is that one uses tags.  Unfortunately, such a procedure is faulty and incomplete and not nearly as comprehensive as an MM search by location.  From what I've read in these forums, trying to find the right models/crew in one's area on Instagram is an arduous slog through the mud.

Given that 15% hired your model through MM, I would bet that most of your model's "Instagram clients" actually found him/her via a location search on MM, and then they followed an Instagram link posted on the model's MM profile.

Now, you and others here might say, "See!  An MM member doesn't need to post pertinent info/images on MM -- he/she can just give a link on their MM profile and put the pertinent work on Instagram!"

However, does your model have the statistic on how many potential clients decided not to bother visiting his/her Instagram page, and instead clicked on the next immediate model in their MM search?"  There's no telling how many times that happened to your model, but if I were him/her, I would want that statistic to be "0."

There's no good reason to exclude pertinent info and work from one's MM profile, but there is a very solid reason to include such information/work -- what client wants to bother going to another site when there are numerous other candidates who already include the important info in their MM profile.

AlaskanSeaAdventure wrote:
It's well known that MM is on its way out.

That's been "well known" for almost a decade.

No doubt that MM has been steadily declining, but it still remains the primary website with all the necessary resources needed for models and crew to collaborate.

AlaskanSeaAdventure wrote:
Just scroll through the forums and you will see a ton of threads about how models on MM are not returning messages, and like you said, they aren't posting their recent stuff on MM as well.

Well, a lot of that has been happening since MM began.  However, I fear that the reasons that such problems have been increasing in the last few years is because of the "Instagram misconception" above that many MM members and you share.

AlaskanSeaAdventure wrote:
You want to hire talent?  You have to go where talent is.  Don't like it, then perhaps this industry isn't for you.  Get off your high horse and stop pretending to be something you are not.  You want a model based upon their looks and you want to see what their recent stuff is, then you have to go where that is.

Hold on a second... didn't you repeatedly tell me that I do not have to go where the recent stuff is?

The Other Place wrote:
Again, it is always important to make the pertinent work and information as readily available as possible to potential clients (and employers).  That is my point in this thread.

What is it that YOU don't get? Why do you think OF content is part of casting information? It's just not. You take paragraphs and paragraphs trying to justify that you are too cheap to pay for content.

Dan Howell wrote:
Why do you think OF content is part of casting information? It's just not.

What?

I don't think that, and I never said that OF content should be reviewed for casting.  On the contrary, I emphatically argued the opposite to that notion.

I am saying that MM members should post all pertinent work/info for clients on MM.  Don't make a client go elsewhere and jump through hoops just to assess your skills and/or look.

I am not sure how anyone could be confused by such a simple concept.

Furthermore, the OP said that some models list OF links in their MM profiles for prospective clients to review their work.  The OP said that -- that's a fact, and I am not making that up!  So, that is where the OF mentions originated in this thread, but for my point it could just as well be Instagram, Flickr, Imgr, Tumblr... or whatever.  The point is that it's a bad idea to make a prospective client chase links around the Internet just to see one's pertinent work.

Additionally. please note that in all my posts that I refer to clients of both models and crew.  Most crew will not have their work on a "pay site," but they might put pertinent work only on Instagram and not in their MM profile.  So, I am not singling out models with work on pay sites -- I am referring to all MM members who exclude their pertinent work/info from their MM profile and put it elsewhere on the Internet.

Dan Howell wrote:
You take paragraphs and paragraphs trying to justify that you are too cheap to pay for content.

LOL!

Perhaps you should actually read those paragraphs and consider them enough to respond to them one by one, then you might understand the simple concept that I am stating.

I am amazed at how you can come up with an imaginary scenario and then run (a marathon) with it.

I have zero desire to see someone's "pay content" elsewhere.

Moreover, I am saying that I and many prospective clients of MM members will not bother to go to another site, much less pay to see a candidates pertinent work.  We have deadlines to meet, and we will just click to the next profile of an MM candidate who provides us with the work and info we need to make our casting/hiring decision.

LightDreams wrote:
He believes that he's entitled to free access to a members only pay for view site, and it's pretty clear that nothing, or no one, is going to change his mind.

I hope that you are not referring to me, because, if so, you are completely mistaken.

Please note that in all my posts that I refer to clients of both models and crew.  Most crew will not have their work on a "pay per view" site, but they might have pertinent work only on Instagram  and not in their MM profile.

What I am actually saying is that it is a bad idea for any MM member seeking to get hired/cast through MM to exclude their pertinent work/info from their MM profile and, instead, put it elsewhere on the web.

Don't expect prospective clients to chase links around the Internet, because a lot of them won't!

LightDreams wrote:
If the work they show is out of date, or difficult to get a reasonable take on the model's current look, SIMPLY ASK FOR SOME RECENT PHOTOS.  It's dead simple.

Well, that might work if the client has time to wait and if the model is cooperative and expeditious.

However, most clients will not bother asking for recent photos, and will simply click away to the profile of the next MM candidate.

LightDreams wrote:
As far as modeling ability goes, I can see that on her older work.  Plus it's a skill that usually improves with experience, not the other way around.

Agreed, and I said as much in my first post:
"I need to see what a model can do and what a model looks like right now. "

Shot By Adam wrote:
I'm curious which category you fit into? ...
And no, there are other categories of people who come here as well. Some people come here to learn how to grow as a photographer, model, MUA, etc. Others come here to collaborate with others (which is why I come here, on occasion). There are other reasons as well.

Model MoRina wrote:
... it didn't even occur to you I am female. Lol

Perhaps he merely refrained from using the "/s" flag, as I did.

Regardless, I think his (and my) point is valid, regarding the varied and many "categories" of MM members.

The Other Place wrote:
I am saying that MM members should post all pertinent work/info for clients on MM.  Don't make a client go elsewhere and jump through hoops just to assess your skills and/or look.

I am not sure how anyone could be confused by such a simple concept.

Maybe its just a differential between our abilities and experience, but I don't need to see OF content to 'assess your skills and/or look' but apparently you do. Not sure why you keep hitting the point that you you can't make a casting decision based on measurements and a few photos, but if you think that is a strength for you enjoy.

The Other Place wrote:
I don't think that, and I never said that OF content should be reviewed for casting.

Ha ha ha....you ACTUALLY did say that. 

The Other Place wrote:
Not sure if you fully comprehended my statement which you quoted:
"If the work that I need to see to make a hiring decision is in only another location than Model Mayhem (or behind a cut/paywall), then I am forced to go there if I want to see that model's/crew-member's work."

Again...you keep using the words "FORCED".  You are NOT forced to go to OnlyFans.  It's a suggestion.  How can you not understand that simple concept.  You are the one who keeps using the words FORCED, not anyone else. 

If YOU or a photographer WANT to see their recent work, then you are FREE to go to OnlyFans.  Most of the models I see are posting recent work. 

The Other Place wrote:
However, if I want to see an MM members pertinent work that is excluded from their MM profile but included on another site, then I am certainly forced to go to that other site.

You see. You use the FORCED word again.  It's like a model saying, hey I was recently published in Playboy Magazine.  If you want to see that work are you now FORCED to go buy a subscription of Playboy?  Nope.  You can simply buy one if you WANT to, but there is no FORCE involved.

Honestly, it sounds to me like perhaps you are misunderstanding what MODELS are doing, rather than the rest of us are misunderstanding what you are saying.

Nobody is FORCING you to do anything.  If you don't like what the model has on her MM page, and WANT to see her recent work that she has on OF, then you are more than welcome to do so, but there is no force being done.

How is their recent work actually relevant?  When I look around for a model to shoot, I don't necessarily look for their most recent work.  I look at all of it.  If they have an instagram account, since I have one, I will peruse it.  If the account is blocked, I just simply ignore that fact and make a decision based upon what I see. 

The Model is free to make his/her choice as to where they post their stuff.  If you are not happy with that, simply move on and find someone else.  Not sure how that's such a hard thing to do and grasp.

I don't have an OF account.  I could care less if they have one.  To me, I am only interested in my work at that point.  How can they (the model) contribute to my work.  I will post up credit pictures on MM in hopes they will acknowledge the work done.  But again, nobody is pointing a gun to your head demanding you pay up to see their work.  Models post their stuff anywhere and everywhere.  That's THEIR choice as to where they post. 

I have been looking at pages of models in my area.  Most don't seem to interested in posting their work here anymore.  Probably because they want to avoid people such as you.  Or perhaps they feel that MM is on it's way out.  Shoot, OF is on it's way out.  I know two models who do work for their OF and they are getting less and less subscriptions from that platform.  One possible reason is inflation has killed off peoples porn budget.  Another could be that most subscribers to OF might be just simply bored with their content.  Instagram is another platform that is seeing less and less people.  I for one rarely post anything there anymore. 

The Other Place wrote:
Why on Earth would you not list your certifications and awards in your resume?

Ah....because your resume is supposed to be one page long.  It's an attention grabber.  It is a showcase of your skills at the job.  That's where Linkedin comes into play.  I have my volunteer work, my hobbies, etc. all there.  That gives HR and the Hiring manager a better description of who I am, rather than a one page summary. 

The Other Place wrote:
Most importantly, those statistics ignore a crucial variable -- how did those clients find that model on Instagram?

Sounds like you never have used Instagram to search for a model.  It's really simple.  It's all about marketing and using the hashtag (#).  It's really simple.  You open up Instagram, use the search function and find keywords like Seattle Models, or Denver models.  Or you search for fashion models.  Similar to MM search other than the fact that MM is strictly for models and photographers.  But it's the same concept. 

https://influencermarketinghub.com/instagram-search/

The Other Place wrote:
Unfortunately, such a procedure is faulty and incomplete and not nearly as comprehensive as an MM search by location.  From what I've read in these forums, trying to find the right models/crew in one's area on Instagram is an arduous slog through the mud.

Sure is, but so is finding a model on MM.  Most never respond and according to you....the ultimate king/queen bee and ultimate expert on how to market someone as a model.....as you seem to act like.....never post up their recent work. 

So since you have clearly put out (and complained about ad nauseam) models are not posting their current work.  So your search efforts have to change and be modified.   Or you simply miss out on meeting some amazing models who have found that MM is not the platform for them.  I have contacted a good number of models in my area, and have had 2 respond back.  Yet on Instagram, I have had about 10 respond back.  I guess you are right when you stated:

The Other Place wrote:
MM members are not renowned for their skills in the field of statistics;

I have had one model who gets more of their photographers from Instagram and OF than MM.  Yet you are the one who denies it.  Just look through the forums some time.  You will find numerous discussions on the fact that models never respond, or a few will.  You will see people complaining about getting unsolicited photography requests from models.  There is one titled, Models who choose to keep there MM account but.  The opening line pretty much says "a lot models keep accounts that are over 10 years with no intention of doing photoshoots. "

Then you stumble upon this statement from a model in that same thread,

"A lot of models moved away from MM because there was a period where the forums became tense. It felt like a war between models and photographers. So, many models choose to sperate from that. "

Hmm....sounds to me exactly what you are doing when you claim  you are forced to look at their OnlyFans page to see their most recent work.  So from the mouth of a model, sounds to me like Photographers who complain end up driving away the models.  Why would a model want to post recent work if they have people such as yourself who don't appreciate the fact that there are other modeling sites that are more conducive to finding work and working with people who are going to treat them with respect and not complain and claim they are being FORCED to do something?

The fact comes down to essentially this.  YOU need to adapt to how the industry is rather than the industry needs to be done YOUR way.  You don't need to see their current work to asses if you want to work with them.  Just like the resume thing.  You don't need to visit Linkedin to asses whether a candidate is right for the job.  That's where the interview comes into play.  HR and Hiring managers don't NEED to go to Linkedin, but they can if they feel they want to.  Like a hiring manager doesn't need to know what you did in 2nd grade, nor do they need to know what you did last week.  They are ONLY interested in what skills you have, so if ALL they look at is the resume, then that's perfectly fine.  But if they WANT to see more then they can go on Linkedin and visit the persons profile.  I am NOT forcing them to do so, that's of their own FREE will.  Something you seem to lack an understanding of.

The Other Place wrote:
Perhaps he merely refrained from using the "/s" flag, as I did.

Regardless, I think his (and my) point is valid, regarding the varied and many "categories" of MM members.

Yeah, okay. You were just kidding. Got it. (do I need to add the /s or is it implied?)

If you think there are droves of members in other categories here, then I will let you enjoy your delusion. And you fail to understand that the most clicks on this site probably come from non-members just looking for nudes and sexy pictures.

Model MoRina wrote:

Yeah, okay. You were just kidding. Got it. (do I need to add the /s or is it implied?)

If you think there are droves of members in other categories here, then I will let you enjoy your delusion. And you fail to understand that the most clicks on this site probably come from non-members just looking for nudes and sexy pictures.

Possibly, but then why would they pay to view nudes and sexy pictures on OF when they can find them here, and on many other sites for free?