Zap Industries wrote:
No, she was already traveling and contacted me. She did not travel just for this shoot.

The point is she could have traveled to a different location with another photographer. She blocked out time for you.

That said, I'm not telling you what to do, I'm telling you what I would do (and have done). So just do what you're going to do and the chips fall where they fall.

JQuest wrote:

The point is she could have traveled to a different location with another photographer. She blocked out time for you.

That said, I'm not telling you what to do, I'm telling you what I would do (and have done). So just do what you're going to do and the chips fall where they fall.

See my last message. It's all been taken care of. She cancled and apologized.

Zap Industries wrote:
I told her weather permitting from the very first message. I stressed it later on by saying that it has to be sunny. She agreed to the conditions. I gave her 4 days notice.

None of this matters. You booked her time and then, because of an act of god, you had to cancel. However, at such short notice she was probably not able to book a shoot in that same time slot that you reserved for her.

In all of my photography contracts it clearly states that all retainers are to be kept by me in the event of such an occurrence for this exact reason and I have a breakdown of when balances are due up until the date of the shoot, even if the shoot is cancelled. So for example, if the shoot is cancelled a week in advance, I keep the retainer. 1-7 days in advance, I'm owed 50% of the balance. Same day cancellation, I'm owed the full amount.

Do I think you should be paying her 100% of her fee? No, but half sounds quite fair and you should be glad to do it. If anything, it's common courtesy.

Shot By Adam wrote:
None of this matters. You booked her time and then, because of an act of god, you had to cancel. However, at such short notice she was probably not able to book a shoot in that same time slot that you reserved for her.

In all of my photography contracts it clearly states that all retainers are to be kept by me in the event of such an occurrence for this exact reason and I have a breakdown of when balances are due up until the date of the shoot, even if the shoot is cancelled. So for example, if the shoot is cancelled a week in advance, I keep the retainer. 1-7 days in advance, I'm owed 50% of the balance. Same day cancellation, I'm owed the full amount.

Do I think you should be paying her 100% of her fee? No, but half sounds quite fair and you should be glad to do it. If anything, it's common courtesy.

What matters now is my updated messages that you may have missed. It's all good, and I absolutely did not cancel, re-read the OP. She assumed I was about to cancel when I mentioned that it was going to rain. In the end (Sunday) I told her that I was still down to shoot in the rain. She said no and apologized.

Zap Industries wrote:
Small update. Last night she asked me how the weather was looking for the shoot. I told her they are still saying rain with thunderstorms. I took the advice of many here, and said that I don't mind shooting in the rain on the beach, and said I was still down if she was. She responded how about Tuesday? I replied back that I have to work all day, and asked her if she was going to still be here this weekend (my next days off of work). So far, no reply. This was last night.

Weather update here: Pouring with thunder.

Edit: She just replied that "I'll be gone by then 😞 I'm sorry!"

Congratulations the problem solved itself, just like prior advice suggested

Create a stage for her to cancel and it negates your social/professional liability

Liv Sage wrote:
From a traveling model perspective

I would likely have been okay with shooting anyway unless we're talking a tropical rainstorm (seems rather unlikely in Staten Island). I rarely experienced rain in NYC that I would not have been willing to shoot outdoors in. Sometimes that can be even better as I'm much less likely to get caught doing the outdoor shoot if the weather isn't optimal (and as a redhead I'm not a huge fan of sunny beach shoots).

It's not legally required, but all of the photographers I work with would pay a cancellation fee for this. Yes, it's not required legally, but, especially if you want to potentially photograph that model in the future, paying a cancellation can't hurt.

I'd say if you're doing shoots outside that are very reliant on weather, and you have no backup plan/do not want a backup plan, it's often better to book models who are more local. When I'm local to a photographer, these things are a lot easier because I am not as reliant on the money or I am more flexible about rescheduling. When traveling it can become extremely stressful if shoots are being canceled with no backup plan.

Yep, in the end, I said that I was still down to shoot in the rain. She did not want to shoot in it. The shoot wasn't in SI, but Gunnison Beach, NJ.

Zap Industries wrote:

What matters now is my updated messages that you may have missed. It's all good, and I absolutely did not cancel, re-read the OP. She assumed I was about to cancel when I mentioned that it was going to rain. In the end (Sunday) I told her that I was still down to shoot in the rain. She said no and apologized.

What matters now is that you got out of it in a manner in which you did not experience a financial inconvenience, but she did?

The situation you got yourself into was one of your own making.  Despite your belief that you were clear about not shooting in inclement weather, your agreement did not address other things that you have since learned about in this thread. 

There is more to it than what it seems that you got out of it. 

She may also have been reading this thread.  She may refuse to shoot with you in the future, as might others.  She may have apologized, but there is a possibility she had other reasons for doing so- like that it wasn't worth her effort to fight with you, not because she felt she was wrong. 

You did manipulate her.

Let's remember, you did change the parameters of your arrangement to get out of it.  You had agreed to not shoot in inclement weather.  You changed that.  I understand that you were advised to do such regarding future arrangements, but the advice was directed at how you can handle future situations to avoid problems- not so you could finagle your way out of this- a situation where the consensus was very much in favor of you granting her a cancelation fee.  You still should.  But now you know that in future discussions, the parameters of cancelation should be more detailed and inclusive so that the other person really does understand your intent.  Be sure to specify that you are not subject to a cancelation fee and then watch how much more difficult it becomes to book a highly skilled model.

We could make educated guesses about who she is, but we don't know who she is, so we don't have any idea of what she did provide for you or if she has standard terms or if she directed you to them.  Many models have a cancelation fee listed on their profiles.  If she did direct you to other information that she considers standard and you failed to read the terms- shame on you and you owe her.  The premise that she is a traveling model begs for the conclusion that she is experienced regarding such matters.

That you got out of paying her a fee does not mean that you were honorable.

Hunter  GWPB wrote:
What matters now is that you got out of it in a manner in which you did not experience a financial inconvenience, but she did?

The situation you got yourself into was one of your own making.  Despite your belief that you were clear about not shooting in inclement weather, your agreement did not address other things that you have since learned about in this thread. 

There is more to it than what it seems that you got out of it. 

You did manipulate her.

I was willing to shoot in the rain. She didn't want to do it when I said that I was ok with it. What's the problem?

Zap Industries wrote:
I was willing to shoot in the rain. She didn't want to do it when I said that I was ok with it. What's the problem?

Except it sounded earlier that you were adamant about fair weather (and without knowing/seeing the entirety of your message, it might be unclear to the model if inclement weather meant the shoot was off in its entirety, or that shooting at the beach was off, but a shoot of some sort could still take place. Yes, you've mentioned that you only want to shoot at the beach; we can't know how clearly you conveyed that fact to the model).

Zap Industries wrote:
In my very first post to her, I said "It also has to be a nice, sunny warm day as well" and later on "weather permitting." I used those exact words...

In any case, only you and the model know whether all, none, or some of the parties involved are duly satisfied. You asked for opinions on your actions, and you received them. Carry on.

Mark Salo wrote:
Executive Summary: Model cancelled and wants me to pay.

Why did this take so long?

Do I understand correctly?

Sorta. She thought that I was canceling when I said "It looks like Monday will rain all day" and said I have to pay a fee. Then Sunday, I took the advice of many and I said I don't mind shooting in the rain at all if she was cool with it. Then she dropped the fee request and apologized. Turns out she didn't want to shoot in the rain even more than I didn't.

AgX wrote:
Except it sounded earlier that you were adamant about fair weather (and without knowing/seeing the entirety of your message, it might be unclear to the model if inclement weather meant the shoot was off in its entirety, or that shooting at the beach was off, but a shoot of some sort could still take place. Yes, you've mentioned that you only want to shoot at the beach; we can't know how clearly you conveyed that fact to the model).

In any case, only you and the model know whether all, none, or some of the parties involved are duly satisfied. You asked for opinions on your actions, and you received them. Carry on.

You're right, I worded a lot of things wrong and really didn't want to shoot in the rain. I would have grudgingly done the shoot, but in the end she did not want to do it. Am I glad that she canceled? Yes. Would I have gone in the rain if she was willing? Still yes.

Zap Industries wrote:
You're right, I worded a lot of things wrong and really didn't want to shoot in the rain. I would have grudgingly done the shoot, but in the end she did not want to do it. Am I glad that she canceled? Yes. Would I have gone in the rain if she was willing? Still yes.

It seems to me that you were looking for a way to avoid having to pay the model when she told you that there would be a cancelation fee if you were the one to cancel.  So you claimed to her that you'd shoot anyway.  You got what you wanted.  If you are always going to try to shoot only outdoors on warm sunny days, you will never expand your abilities as a photographer.  I'm not keen on how you handled this, but it is what it is.  Hopefully you are learning from your post.  It's not like you have to take advice given, but I'm giving you some to think about.

My photography teacher in college told us on the first day of class that it is not the equipment we use, but how we use it that is important.  I think you might know that one. The next thing he told us was that he was going to give us a new assignment each week to work on.  We would be trying new subjects in photography, for example "rain" "portraiture" "still life" "landscaper" "fashion" art nude" and so on .. all in black & white film.  Then after completing a year of the assignments, we could follow our passion in photographing our favorite subjects. 

I love photographing people.  I hope that you really enjoy people as well.  Much of the work of photographing people involves communication.  Because no one is perfect, no day (meaning the weather) is perfect, so learning to roll with it is a skill in itself. With approximately 75% of the membership being photographers on this website, and the 25% being models, it's getting more difficult to book from here.  So your words " I would have grudgingly done the shoot" are holding you back from growing as a photographer.  Get out of that mindset and accept challenges! Get out of your own comfort zone .. at least once in awhile! That is what advice I am giving you.
Take it or leave it.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
It seems to me that you were looking for a way to avoid having to pay the model when she told you that there would be a cancelation fee if you were the one to cancel.  So you claimed to her that you'd shoot anyway.  You got what you wanted.  If you are always going to try to shoot only outdoors on warm sunny days, you will never expand your abilities as a photographer.  I'm not keen on how you handled this, but it is what it is.  Hopefully you are learning from your post.  It's not like you have to take advice given, but I'm giving you some to think

That is incorrect. I didn't "claim" that I would have shot anyway. I absolutely would have shot anyway. She didn't want to. So what that I'm glad that she canceled? I didn't force her to, I took the advice of many here. What did you want me to do, pay her for canceling? When I said that I was down to shoot in the rain, she just mentioned "how about tomorrow?" She did not mention indoors or anywhere else. It is very likely that she either found another shoot, or spent the day with family as she had previously mentioned thar she was doing that day.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
It seems to me that you were looking for a way to avoid having to pay the model when she told you that there would be a cancelation fee if you were the one to cancel.  So you claimed to her that you'd shoot anyway.  You got what you wanted.

they followed the earliest suggestion given in the thread

damned if they do damned if they don't, ridiculous

Roaring 20s wrote:
they followed the earliest suggestion given in the thread

damned if they do damned if they don't, ridiculous

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To be true, that would require a twist of the facts.  Yes, he cherry picked from what was offered in the thread and he took what was shared in the thread to help avoid the problem in the future (which would include specific discussions about cancelation fees), and then he applied what he learned from the thread retroactively to his current situation.  He did not do the honorable thing, which is something else he could have learned from the thread but did not.  How then is it that he is damned if he did and damned if he didn't?  Ultimately, his intention was to not pay the model a cancelation fee.  The fact that he manipulated the model into giving him a way out doesn't change the fact that he didn't want to pay the model when he canceled.

He may deny that he canceled, but he had set the shoot up under the condition that the shoot would not happen under inclement weather.  He contacted the model about the weather, in advance, expressing concern the weather would be inclement.  A reasonable person would perceive he wanted to cancel. 

Applying what he learned here, he offered the model a poor choice.  He offered to shoot in the rain, wind and lightning on a beach without shelter and where the nearest shelter is more than 1500 feet from the shoreline through soft sand.  The parking lot is more than 500 feet further.  That assumes he would have a vehicle there.  If the transportation involved the ferry, then figure it is about a mile from the site facilities (restrooms and outdoor showers), on foot or bicycle, to the ferry.  That is not a lot of fun in a freaking thunderstorm.  Then there is also the timing of the ferry.  There aren't that many ferry runs (4:10 & 5:45 pm Monday, July 3rd, for example) and shelter open to the public and near the terminal is limited.

Working in stormy conditions is not the same as working in the weather which he had prescribed as part of the shoot.  He did not claim to offer the model more money for working in potentially dangerous conditions and in a situation that would certainly be uncomfortable.  He did not claim to have offered the model an alternative at a safe, dry location. 

We do not know the specifics about the cancelation fee, but we do know that many traveling models have information about a cancelation fee on their profile.  We do know that a cancelation fee was not specifically discussed or he would have told us, but if the cancelation fee was on her profile, it is his fault it wasn't discussed.

It is irrelevant if the model got a last minute gig to replace his gig.  It is irrelevant if the model spent time with her family instead.  He canceled the shoot, or appeared to cancel the shoot and did not offer to shoot in the inclement weather at the time he broached the subject of impending thunderstorms with the model.  He then changed the parameters of the shoot to cause the model to cancel.  You expect us to grant him accolades for that behavior?  He is doing a fine job of congratulating himself.

Roaring 20s wrote:
I'm fine with this outcome. I'm only responding to shift the consensus.

From what I can tell, OP's only indictment was asking at all.

OP did not cancel, regardless of what was going through OP's head. OP got unilaterally presented with a cancellation fee, as the model clairvoyantly saw the possibility of OP cancelling. We don't know how she specifies her cancellation fee in advance to judge whether this follows community standards, but assuming its something we agree with OP then chose not to cancel, circumventing the conditions of the cancellation fee and the model then created impossible rescheduling conditions as she would be leaving town, effectively cancelling on her own.

It is also true that models have costs. Okay? Where is this expectation that booking shoots are to be financially risk-free for models? Go tip her CashApp yourself, an action that holds the same weight as whatever is suggested by others in this thread

It is obvious that both you and the OP are fine with the outcome.  It is a shame you are both happy with screwing other people over.  But, whatever. 

It is interesting that you claim the OP did not cancel when all we have is the OP's word.  Has he shown us his actual messages?  Yet you also know the OP was unilaterally presented with a cancelation fee so you must have seen the model's profile and messages.  The model's inability to reschedule is not relevant.  If the model was local, she still would have lost a day's work.

Community standards as expressed in this thread were overwhelmingly in favor of granting the model a cancelation fee.  I doubt you will sway that consensus with your selfish attitude. 

You consider his only indictment being that he asked?  It seems like he asked our opinions, didn't like the opinions, and as discussed, used a portion of the information to arrive at a solution to his liking.  It seems like anyone that has been on this site and used it should have experienced profiles that talk about cancelation fees for the model and, therefore, the photographer should have had the foresight to discuss the specifics of the subject with the other party, rather than creating conditions that were likely to leave her hanging.

Do you want models to be available on this site?  Your perspective would permit photographers to book models and cancel for any whim and it is tough shit for the models because the model's participation is not risk free?  Yet you seem to believe that the photographers participation is risk free.  He can reserve a model's time without cost, and set the parameters of the shoot to be so narrow that he can suggest walking away at the threat of a storm and tough shit for the model. 

The OP said, ""It also has to be a nice, sunny warm day as well" and later on "weather permitting." I used those exact words."  But notice that he broke up what he said into different phrases.  What did he say in between those phrases?  What exactly does it mean when someone says it has to be a "nice, sunny day?"  It could be sunny but too cold?  Sunny but too hot?  Good temperatures and sunny, but too windy?  Too clam?  He also said, "as well" at the end of the sentence and one could wonder what conditions preceded the beginning of the sentence fragment he shared, and represent what was prior to the "as well."

He said the model said, "Does that mean you want to cancel?"  Did he tell us that he immediately responded by saying, "No, I will shoot if you want to."  Or did he tell her that after reading thread responses?  We don't know what was said after her query and prior to her suggesting he owed a cancelation fee.

Last July, I did a shoot at the location he planned to use.  It was scheduled to be four hours.  We started not long after daybreak. It was nice and sunny, but it it was so hot we quit after a couple hours.  We even went to an area shaded with trees and worked on concepts that were of a different nature, but the heat was excessive.  I could claim the model wanted to quit because of the heat, but we were both suffering, so why should I place the blame on the model as the OP has?  I paid her what was due, what we agreed on, because I picked the location, without an indoor backup, and it wasn't her fault that it was so hot,  Just like it wasn't the OP's models fault that rain was coming.

And finally, you think that others should be responsible for making up the OP's shortcoming to the model?  Why don't you or the OP create a go fund me account and ask people to donate because the OP created a situation that was likely to fail and, without expressing any regard or any consideration for the model, or the well being of the model, and then manipulated her into canceling so he could walk away?

Hunter  GWPB wrote:
It is obvious that both you and the OP are fine with the outcome.  It is ashame you are both happy with screwing other people over.  But, whatever.

Most years it doesn't rain here, the situation never comes up for me to encounter this "happiness".

Just context.

Hunter  GWPB wrote:
He canceled the shoot, or appeared to cancel the shoot and did not offer to shoot in the inclement weather at the time he broached the subject of impending thunderstorms with the model.

Wrong. When she said "Does that mean you are canceling?" I asked her if she wanted to shoot in the rain, and that who knows, maybe it won't rain after all. She then did not reply for three days, finally replying on Sunday, saying "How's the weather looking?" Neither of us ever mentioned an alternate location. If you book a beach shoot and agree to it, then you do a beach shoot.

Hunter  GWPB wrote:
We do not know the specifics about the cancelation fee, but we do know that many traveling models have information about a cancelation fee on their profile.  We do know that a cancelation fee was not specifically discussed or he would have told us, but if the cancelation fee was on her profile, it is his fault it wasn't discussed.

It's not in her profile, but I'm sure you'll still find fault.

Hunter  GWPB wrote:
he OP said, "It also has to be a nice, sunny warm day as well" and later on "weather permitting." I used those exact words.  But notice that he broke up what he said into different phrases.  What did he say in between those phrase?  What exactly. does it mean when someone says it has to be a "nice, sunny day?"  It could be sunny but too cold?  Sunny but too hot?  Good temperature and sunny but too windy?  Too clam?

Perfect for me is sunny and 85+ with no wind, but realistically anything above 80 without rain or so would be fine, even cooler.

Hunter  GWPB wrote:
Last July, I did a shoot at the location he did.  It was scheduled to be four hours.  We started not long after daybreak. It was nice and sunny but it it was so hot we quit as a couple hours.  We even went to a shaded area and worked on concepts that were of a different nature.  I could claim the model wanted to quit because of the heat, but we were both suffering, so why should I place the blame on the model as the OP has?  I paid her what was due, what we agreed on, because I picked the location, without an indoor backup, and it wasn't her fault that it was so hot,  Just like it wasn't the OP's models fault that rain was coming.

Nonsense, I don't claim anything of the like. I'll do you one better. I did a paid shoot with a model for 3 hours there several years back. She did nothing but complain from the moment she set foot on the beach, even saying after an hour "Can we go yet?" and "How many pictures can you possibly need?" We left after an hour and 15 minutes, and I paid her for the full three hours.

Hunter  GWPB wrote:
Community standards as expressed in this thread were overwhelmingly in favor of granting the model a cancelation fee.

Only because the title was worded wrong, with most thinking that I canceled. Plus, many who said that I should have granted a cancelation fee said that I should have shot in the rain, which I offered to do.

Zap Industries wrote:
Should I have paid her?

From what you describe here she was traveling anyway and not specifically for your shoot. The weather made it unsafe for the shoot and unless she showed up at your location before you canceled then, no, I would not pay.

You are not responsible for the weather.

Zap Industries wrote:
Wrong. When she said "Does that mean you are canceling?" I asked her if she wanted to shoot in the rain, and that who knows, maybe it won't rain after all. She then did not reply for three days, finally replying on Sunday, saying "How's the weather looking?" Neither of us ever mentioned an alternate location. If you book a beach shoot and agree to it, then you do a beach shoot.

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That is not how you phrased the story in your OP.   In the OP you said she mentioned the cancellation fee and then you asked, "Do you want to risk it with it rain all day with lightning?" That is what it means when you said you followed up, right?  For that matter, what I quoted you saying directly above this is so very different from what you previously said, it appears you are being deceptive.
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One could also say that if you agree to reserve a model's time and you don't make it happen, you can man up and pay a cancelation fee.
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Is it the model's responsibility to mention an alternative location for you?   Is it your responsibility to offer unambiguous terms?  You mention that you put forth the weather related requirements at the beginning of the conversation.  At the end of the conversation, did you summarize for clarity all of the conditions and terms?  If you are going to claim the discussion was the contract then the entire conversation applies and is reviewable and you are only presenting what you want in this discussion. 

If I planned a shoot up there and had to have an indoor alternative, it would mean I was out of luck because I don't have available resources there and if I needed her to come to me to make a change to an indoor location happen, I am talking about trains, transfers, pick ups, driving and doing it all over again to get her back to NYC.  A short shoot would become an all day thing for her.  Except, even I know I could meet her for an alternative in NYC and plan to shoot at GCS.  Then if it is intermittent rain, we can work at various parks, on the street, and so on, and still get topless and bikini work in on the streets.  I can make that happen with a 90 minute drive and a train to Penn Station and she can meet me on the stairs across Eighth between 31st and 33rd.  I am not and have never been a New Yorker and this seems simple to me.  I have done many shoots in NYC.  Some with the help of models being my colleagues and some just by winging it.

You may feel I am being a little harsh, but the scrutiny you have found in this thread is nothing compared to what her attorney can do to you- he/she will have the entire conversation to use to question you.
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Zap Industries wrote:
It's not in her profile, but I'm sure you'll still find fault.

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I do still find fault, because, as I said, anyone using this site to find models should be aware of the possibility of cancelation fees.  Also, we have only your word about when it first came up.  Should I have grown to doubt your word because of your efforts to double down and justify walking away without paying a fee? 

I find fault because you have not expressed any concern for the model and you did ask what the problem was after you manipulated the model, as if that shouldn't be a problem.  If photographing models is your hobby, you could switch to birds to save some money.
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In a previous post I said, "When you said it has to be a nice sunny day, did you say that unsatisfactory conditions would result in a cancelation without a cancelation fee?  Letting her know in advance, clearly, that she could not expect a cancelation fee?  You did say that she altered her plans to accommodate you.   Isn't that worth some compensation? " You did not respond to that.
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Zap Industries wrote:
Perfect for me is sunny and 85+ with no wind, but realistically anything above 80 without rain or so would be fine, even cooler.

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You should understand that my previous statement was to illustrate the ambiguous nature of the criteria that you set.  While you have NOW stated what the perfect day is and, to an extent, the limits to the variables that you would accept, we still do not know how much of a change in that perfect day would be required for you to stick it to the model.  Your response would indicate that you still don't understand how ambiguous criteria got you into this.
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Zap Industries wrote:
Nonsense, I don't claim anything of the like. I'll do you one better. I did a paid shoot with a model for 3 hours there several years back. She did nothing but complain from the moment she set foot on the beach, even saying after an hour "Can we go yet?" and "How many pictures can you possibly need?" We left after an hour and 15 minutes, and I paid her for the full three hours.

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Really?  That does me one better?  What other circumstances were relative?  Was there something else that was causing her discomfort?  It sounds like you paid for a couple of non-shooting hours and I did too, but I expressed concern for my colleague.  Did you?  So how does that one better me and why do you think this is a competition?  I am not here justifying how I stuck it to a model.

Okay.  You had a tough shoot that day and you told us the story and demeaned the model for being difficult.  You have told the story previously in the thread.  So, you got screwed, from your point of view, several years ago, and that justifies you screwing over this model?
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Zap Industries wrote:
Only because the title was worded wrong, with most thinking that I canceled. Plus, many who said that I should have granted a cancelation fee said that I should have shot in the rain, which I offered to do.

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You are saying that we can't read your title, the clarifiers in your original post and the remainder of the thread and reach a conclusion based on the entirety of what you said?  It is from the remainder of the thread that it became clear your goal was to get off free.  As for you offering to shoot in the rain, the timeline on that is not clear, but what you said in your OP is that you did not suggest shooting in the rain until after the cancelation fee was mentioned.

https://www.modelmayhem.com/forums/post … st19980538
Here you said it was Sunday (the 25th) that you mentioned shooting in the rain to her.  (Post to respond to Mark Salo)

https://www.modelmayhem.com/forums/post … st19980349
This is the post where you first indicated you offered to shoot in the rain and it came after a post where it was suggested you act as if you are going to shoot in the poor conditions, despite you specifying the shooting conditions- thereby breaking your own word and disregarding the lack of the weather conditions in which you said you had contractually agreed to shoot under.  You did this with the intent of causing the model to back out.

https://www.modelmayhem.com/forums/post … st19980375
In this post you clearly say that you asked the model about shooting in the rain as a result of what someone said in this thread.  This was the post that illustrated that you manipulated the model.

If I look here at your first post, https://www.modelmayhem.com/forums/post … st19980336 and here where your first post was quoted by Shadow Dancer less than an hour after your first post, https://www.modelmayhem.com/forums/post … st19980344 then we can see there are considerable differences in your posts.  Why????  In the latter, you are quoted as saying that you talked to her about the weather on Thursday (the 22nd) and there is no mention that you would shoot in the rain.   

It appears you altered your first post to support arguments that you failed to make initially.  Now, if you altered the post to make the post more accurate, that is an indication that you did not and do not present your case well and it would be reasonable to presume you did not articulate the situation clearly to the model either.  If you altered your post to deceive us, that is another matter altogether.

The fact that you altered your OP also negates the consensus and variations regarding the replies.  People were responding to different posts.

At this point, you could consider the cessation of your excavation activities.  You owe her the fee and an apology.

edited Jun 29 23 03:55 pm more or less
fixed link to Shadow Dancer post Jun 29 23  20:57

Zap Industries wrote:
Should I have paid her?

I would have paid her, but it does not matter now. Comments that I made were just my opinion.
It's posts like this that cause models to not want to participate in the forums.

Zap Industries wrote:
So what do you guys think? Should I have paid her? Or did I clear myself by saying that it has to be a nice sunny day from the start? Next time though, I will be even more clear about it being weather permitting.

Did the model have info about booking or cancellation fees on her profile?
I think you did fine. In my experience, these Cancellation and Booking Fees are extortion anyway.
I've paid fees for booking and the models don't even show up. Fuck them.

You did express "weather permitting". You did express the needs of what you wanted to shoot.
You did nothing wrong or illegal. But I'm sure that she may have thought it was unfair.

Angel House Portraits wrote:
I had canceled a shoot with a model because I wasn’t able to make it. She said she was going to start requiring deposits next time because she had too many cancellations done on her. I said no thanks. Advancing money to some independent person is like throwing money away. Besides I was responsible enough to let her know days in advance rather to end up being another statistical flake.

If she is a traveling model, I understand how devastating it can be to have shoots booked that cancel after the model has started her travels.  I can appreciate that you let her know you were canceling days in advance rather than flake on her.  Communication is critical to success!  If I were in your situation where a model told me that she was going to start requiring a deposit .. I would mention to her that I might not book her in the future because of having to put up a deposit OR I might be fine with paying a deposit depending on how badly I wanted to shoot with her.  If a model depends on shoots to pay her bills, I totally understand why she needs to get a deposit to be sure of having money to travel.  Again, it depends on the circumstances.  Good models are worth it!