IMAGINERIES wrote:
Do they have a chance to change the "image" of the Republican party?

What is that "image" Imagineries?  Do you think it is an accurate image?  What would you like to see change?  What other entities or pressures do you expect to have an influence on the image of the Republican Party?

IMAGINERIES wrote:
. . . vulgarities, etc...

All that I see is him responding in kind - tit for tat.

Mark Salo wrote:

All that I see is him responding in kind - tit for tat.

Try a news source.

IMAGINERIES wrote:
Do they have a chance to change the "image" of the Republican party?

Of course. The American people have a famously short memory.

IMAGINERIES wrote:
Do they have a chance to change the "image" of the Republican party?

Can we include politics in our responses on this thread?

IMAGINERIES wrote:
. . . vulgarities, etc...

Mark Salo wrote:
All that I see is him responding in kind - tit for tat.

Was it a tit or a tat that Trump was responding to with these vulgar terms?

Please enlighten us.
--------------------------------

Oct. 8, 2016

Following is an unedited transcript of the tape in which Donald J. Trump repeatedly made vulgar comments about women. Mr. Trump was filmed talking to the television personality Billy Bush of “Access Hollywood” on the set of “Days of Our Lives,” where Mr. Trump was making a cameo appearance. They are later joined by the actress Arianne Zucker. The transcription is by Penn Bullock of The New York Times.
----  https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/08/us/d … cript.html
+++++++++++++++++++

[...]
Trump: I did try and fuck her. She was married.

Unknown: That’s huge news.

Trump: No, no, Nancy. No, this was [unintelligible] — and I moved on her very heavily. In fact, I took her out furniture shopping.

She wanted to get some furniture. I said, “I’ll show you where they have some nice furniture.” I took her out furniture —

I moved on her like a bitch. But I couldn’t get there. And she was married. Then all of a sudden I see her, she’s now got the big phony tits and everything. She’s totally changed her look.

Billy Bush: Sheesh, your girl’s hot as shit. In the purple.

Trump: Whoa! Whoa!

Bush: Yes! The Donald has scored. Whoa, my man!

[Crosstalk]

Trump: Look at you, you are a pussy.

[Crosstalk]

Trump: All right, you and I will walk out.

[Silence]

Trump: Maybe it’s a different one.

Bush: It better not be the publicist. No, it’s, it’s her, it’s —

Trump: Yeah, that’s her. With the gold. I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know, I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.

Bush: Whatever you want.

Trump: Grab ’em by the pussy. You can do anything.

IMAGINERIES wrote:
Do they have a chance to change the "image" of the Republican party?

Things change, so yes, they have a chance.

If the party can rid itself of the stench of Trumpism- it may have a chance.

If justice is served, and Trump is convicted of tax fraud, banking fraud etc etc, it will almost certainly impeded his future political plans. If Jared and Ivanka and Don Jr. and Eric are convicted as well- the "empire dies".

If Trump continues trying to undermine the election- even after the Electoral "landslide" of 306 votes (his words) against him- eventually people will get tired of his bullshit. He can flap his arms, and stamp his pudgy little feet---but he is losing every meaningful court battle...

Trump's "base" of populists wont stay "faithful" to a loser. And he is losing on every front.

Focuspuller wrote:

Of course. The American people have a famously short memory.

Yes, you are so right, and today, when every thing is taped, recorded, photographed...It is a mystery to me...

Focuspuller wrote:
Try a news source.

rfordphotos wrote:
Following is an unedited transcript of the tape in which Donald J. Trump repeatedly made vulgar comments about women. Mr. Trump was filmed talking to the television personality Billy Bush of “Access Hollywood” on the set of “Days of Our Lives,” where Mr. Trump was making a cameo appearance. They are later joined by the actress Arianne Zucker. The transcription is by Penn Bullock of The New York Times.
----  https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/08/us/d … cript.html
+++++++++++++++++++

That tape is from 20 years ago. Give us something current

Mark Salo wrote:
That tape is from 20 years ago. Give us something current

Fifteen years. But for you guys, close enough.

OK, let's start from the beginning: A BIG FAT LIE, NOT a "tit" for some perceived "tat".

From FOXNEWS (yes THAT FoxNews):
https://www.foxnews.com/us/fact-check-t … -inaugural

"FACT CHECK: TRUMP OVERSTATES CROWD SIZE AT INAUGURAL

TRUMP: "I made a speech. I looked out. The field was — it looked like a million, a million and a half people."

The president went on to say that one network "said we drew 250,000 people. Now that's not bad. But it's a lie." He then claimed that were 250,000 right by the stage and the "rest of the, you know, 20-block area, all the way back to the Washington Monument was packed."

"So we caught them," said Trump. "And we caught them in a beauty. And I think they're going to pay a big price.""

Right from the jump, ONE DAY IN OFFICE Golden Goose LYING THROUGH HIS TEETH, threatening retribution for reporting THE TRUTH.

Mark Salo wrote:
That tape is from 20 years ago. Give us something current

In other words- you are willing to ignore the rude, crude and socially disgusting back ground of your hero.

OK

I have seen A.B.S.O.L.U.T.E.L.Y. nothing from little donnie trump to make me think he has developed any saving graces in the time since that tape, quite the contrary:

- his discussion about the various "shi%%oles" he doesnt like. What a great example of diplomacy.

- his describing immigrants as murderers and rapists  is proof of his innate racism.

His describing of the current Vice-President-elect as a monster--- where is the respect? He had the nerve to jump all over a reporter the other day because she wasnt "respectful" and the pig himself is nothing but a petty name calling schoolyard bully  "Pocahontas" (a US Senator) "Foul Mouthed Omar" (a US Representative); "Crazy Bernie" (another US Senator) Where is the respect from him?

Tit for Tat---- where?

Mark Salo wrote:
That tape is from 20 years ago. Give us something current

Seems like just yesterday I was criticizing someone for using an event from 2006 to define Biden.  So you have a point.  A bad point, but a point none the less.  Whoever it was that used the Biden 2006 gaffe was taking something that was one point in time and ignoring many years worth of work that was in direct conflict with that one point in time, so it really was a stretch to make that attack.  He even alluded to this himself.

However, regarding trump?  No, we don't have every minute of his life on tape, but there is a lot evidence that shows that his behavior on the Access Hollywood tape was just a point along the way on a similar trajectory. “You know, if you’re young, and in this era, and if you have any guilt about not having gone to Vietnam, we have our own Vietnam — it’s called the dating game,” Trump said to Stern in a 1993 interview. “Dating is like being in Vietnam. You’re the equivalent of a soldier going over to Vietnam.”   He slept with many women without getting STDs. “It is my personal Vietnam,” he said. “I feel like a great and very brave soldier.” What’s more, Trump added: “This is better than Vietnam. It’s more fun.”   He agreed with Stern about vaginas being a personal landmine. 

Which wife didn't trump cheat on?  There are just too many references available.  He has been accused of multiple sexual assaults and rape.   You think all this is just made up?  Especially after he is caught lying about Clifford and McDougal?  It ain't fake news!

All that about trump being trump and now people want to say he was just giving back as good as he got?  No.  Not at all.  He has been a pig since he was a kid. 

Candice Bergen went on a date with [trump] when she was 18 (and slightly older than him). "I know I was home very early."  She also talked about going on a date with former US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger when she was a young woman.  So who was the better date.  "Kissinger," Bergen said.

So trump may have been all about the tit, but it had nothing to do with a tat.  trump was being trump.  And that is why statements like yours are such hollers after years of, "It is trump being trump."  "Let trump be trump."  "trump tells it like it is."  (2015)"Go Donald! We all know why Trump is so popular right now: He is talking about many items that other candidates don't want to discuss just yet. He is not afraid to speak his mind and that is refreshing, at least for me. I realize he will not be a serious candidate, but it's enjoyable to have someone speak his mind. He does seem to make the other Republican candidates seem hesitant to compete right now. There are so many subjects in our society today that are "politically incorrect" or racist and so much "double speak" that many folks are concerned that someone may be insulted no matter what is discussed. The interesting part is that the news media on TV and newspaper all have their opinions about him. Right now he is the "media buzz," because he has enthusiasm about what he believes and is not afraid to speak his mind, and his ratings are good right now."    https://www.publicopiniononline.com/sto … /32349585/

You know why trump could speak his mind when he was running and other politicians couldn't?  It is because he wasn't a serious candidate!  As Seth Meyers said, “Donald Trump has been saying he will run for president as a Republican, which is surprising since I just assumed he was running as a joke.”   Or is that your tit for tat?  (Doesn't explain everything that came before that.)  You are saying DDT couldn't handle a joke after he spent years on his birther kick?  What  do you suppose was the tit for his tat of copious lies regarding the longstanding and recurring conspiracy theory that Obama was not born in America, well before he ran?  Other than the obvious- racism and opportunism as he explored the only policy he had for running for president- the white identity crises.



Rather than dismiss what we say trump is like, why not refute us with some verifiable times in which he was actually presidential, considerate and kind.  Don't show us the stuff when he read off of the teleprompter like at the State of the Union addresses.  Show us something that was off the cuff, unexpected, unrehearsed and not a political set up.  Show us something that reveals his REAL personality that was on display that for even one small moment in time, that shows us trump is not a pig.

Oh well.  Good to know.  We have endured four years of heinous leadership and two propaganda spewing campaigns and constant crying about winning by not enough and loosing because a loss meant nothing other than the game was rigged.  And of course, getting caught up in verifiable crimes and calling it 'witch hunts.'  Hell of an example of what should motivate a president: Tit for tat.  Is that why he wants to unleash fire and fury?  Tit for tat?  Talk about electing a loser.

Mark Salo wrote:
That tape is from 20 years ago. Give us something current

How about yesterday and today...?

As we all know, it was only yesterday that he insisted that he won the election, big time.  Despite all of the evidence, certified state elections (often certified by Republicans) and the incredible number of (mostly Republican) judges that have thrown out his claims as being absolute garbage.

BUT WAIT, you might say.  What about his acknowledgement yesterday that he'd at least leave the White House if the election was certified against him?  Doesn't that prove what a "good and reasonable" man he is?   Although, normally, there's never be ANY doubt as to whether a defeated President would go peacefully...

Well TODAY, he backed off and is NO LONGER agreeing to leaving the White House as part of a peaceful transition.

Donald Trump - "Biden can only enter the White House as President if he can prove that his ridiculous “80,000,000 votes” were not fraudulently or illegally obtained. When you see what happened in Detroit, Atlanta, Philadelphia & Milwaukee, massive voter fraud, he’s got a big unsolvable problem!"

Now just think about that extreme seriousness of that statement for a minute.  And just exactly what it means to the U.S. and its democracy.  And, as per your request, that's just his behavior for TODAY.

IMAGINERIES wrote:
If the current resident of the White House with his erratic behaviour (putting it mildly), vulgarities, etc...Represent the spirit of the Republican party...So be it.

Long before Donald Trump became president or even ran for president, Europeans and Canadians were rightly painting us with that brush of being fat, dumb vulgar and stupid. one of the highest rated shows on sirius is Howard Stern, we are the country that puts out music like W.A.P our children are FAR inferior to European and asian children on every level. we are "idiocracy' in the eyes of the world, and we are. 

we could do a tit for tat war all day of quoting republican and democratic candidates getting vulgar but it would be pointless
Both are parties are a joke to the world. because they are "Americans" and this is how we are. one only need read all of our nasty posts here how we interact with each other, liberal and conservative alike. we are NASTY. nobody on this forum has taken the high ground because we are exactly what Europeans and asians think we are.

but I digress..,you actually had a democrat who won the presidency say..."Obama is the first articulate and clean african american.
that was...in 2014 ladies and gents. a mind numbing moronic comment by a seasoned politician. this guy who can't even complete a coherent sentence barely won the presidency and will be the first no-show president who will most likely only exist thru carefully worded statements. yay Murica!

Tony From Syracuse wrote:
Long before Donald Trump became president or even ran for president, Europeans and Canadians were rightly painting us with that brush of being fat, dumb vulgar and stupid...

...we are "idiocracy' in the eyes of the world, and we are.

...we could do a tit for tat war all day of quoting republican and democratic candidates getting vulgar but it would be pointless
Both are parties are a joke to the world....

Tony, I really wish you wouldn't completely just make stuff up like that.  Especially when it's so easy to check...
Pew Research, among others, has run worldwide surveys on attitudes towards America.  And, has already been well reported, during the Obama years (among others), America was generally regarded pretty well.  That was especially true of Obama's leadership.

Or, as the IPSO (similar) survey headline read: "President Obama Leaves Office with High Worldwide Approval Ratings"

By the way, for those that are curious, the U.S. appears to have peaked (overall, at least by the numbers) around the end of 2000...

Under Trump, well I've already previously posted the Pew Research about how dramatically the world wide view of the U.S. collapsed (rather amazingly quickly).  Just in case you don't remember, the summary reporting headlines went along the lines of how "The World" now "pitied" the U.S.A...

So let's not pretend that your latest tall tale (about how they're all the same and that no one ever took the U.S. seriously anyway) has any basis in fact.  As often as you try and claim that things are not far worse off as a result of Trump, anyone can Google major reputable sources (such as Pew Research or Ipsos) and check the actual facts for themselves.

Sorry Tony, but I call "Bullshit".

Focuspuller wrote:
The American people have a famously short memory.

QFT

rfordphotos wrote:
Yeah, Tony- we get laughed at. We have an incredibly poor health care system for a "world leader". Our education system turns out functional illiterates.

Some of us feel that people like Trump---and his drive to destroy Obama Care---with NO REPLACEMENT

We had to pass Obamacare without knowing what was in it (per Nancy Pelosi - Yes a DIRECT QUOTE) so why can't we repeal it without knowing what the replacement would look like?  Simple question.

JustHenry wrote:
We had to pass Obamacare without knowing what was in it (per Nancy Pelosi - Yes a DIRECT QUOTE) so why can't we repeal it without knowing what the replacement would look like?  Simple question.

Are you happy about Obama Care passing without knowing enough about it?  Then why would you be happy about repealing it without knowing anything about the replacement- or if it even exists.  It doesn't exist.   Except for the philosophy of, "Get sick, get out of the way and die."

For 10 years Republicans have been actively trying to gut it.  They have failed.  Why?  Partly because it is popular.  Some people want Obama Care repealed but are damned protective of their ACA.    Which goes to show the level of hype that Republican hatred for the program is dependent upon.

The American people are reasonable people.  The Republicans have promised repeal and replace for years.  What has become clear is that 'replace' is not important.   So, why haven't the Republicans provided a replacement to debate?  Because they know that the American people are going to want something better and more costly and the only way to get there is going to be to model our health care system after someone's like Canada's.  And if you don't know it now- then you should research it and find out that all the horrible things that we 'know' about Canada's system has turned out to be lies and smears by the Republicans.

Want American jobs to come back?  Fixing the health care system is a big part of that.

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/27/88430756 … are-system

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2017 … ealth-care

https://www.salon.com/2017/05/28/americ … s-love-it/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/a … story.html

LightDreams wrote:

How about yesterday and today...?

This started out by talking of vulgarities.

JustHenry wrote:
We had to pass Obamacare without knowing what was in it (per Nancy Pelosi - Yes a DIRECT QUOTE) so why can't we repeal it without knowing what the replacement would look like?  Simple question.

It is partly because of things like this statement that Europeans and Canadians paint us with that brush of being stupid.

Fleming Design wrote:
It is partly because of things like this statement that Europeans and Canadians paint us with that brush of being stupid.

Yes, that was a pretty stupid thing for Nancy to say wasn't it?  It was also pretty stupid of the leftstream media to let her get away with it and not roast her for it for years to come afterward. But here we are.

Hunter  GWPB wrote:
Are you happy about Obama Care passing without knowing enough about it?  Then why would you be happy about repealing it without knowing anything about the replacement-

For the same reason you weren't bothered by passing something before we knew what was in it.

Tony From Syracuse wrote:
if america's reputation suffered abroad under Trump, the reality is the politicians on both sides say.,..and do...batshit crazy things so there is zero point in that as our leaders come from the people here.

so now...we have a president that couldn't even remember the word "God" in a speech and the name of the person he was running against...and was surprised in 2014 that there could be a clean and articulate african american politician..  Murica!

An other topic.... Religion and politic...In France I never, never heard a politician mention god!!..It would be a political suicide.
De Gaulle, a devout practicing catholic new it. We would never print the name God on banknotes and I think it is the same for most of the world. Oh....Well, in the UK the Queen is blessed screw the rest...

JustHenry wrote:
For the same reason you weren't bothered by passing something before we knew what was in it.

So your answer is based on assumptions and is a deflection. 

What I knew and didn't know was probably different from what you knew and didn't know given I have a propensity to examine sources.  Presuming if I was or wasn't bothered at the time, isn't relevant and is rather petulant.  The difference is that NOW we have seen what is in the ACA.  We have seen how it helped and how it hurt.  You, once again, want to jump into the unknown and, it seems, you can't articulate a rational reason for embracing the abyss.

Apparently, you just follow the party line- which isn't an assumption.  It is what you have demonstrated.  Just as you have demonstrated that you don't examine sources.

IMAGINERIES wrote:
If the current resident of the White House with his erratic behaviour (putting it mildly), vulgarities, etc...Represent the spirit of the Republican party...So be it.

Not sure how accurate that is.
A lot of disdain within the party for Trump.

Tony From Syracuse wrote:
if america's reputation suffered abroad under Trump, the reality is the politicians on both sides say.,..and do...batshit crazy things so there is zero point in that as our leaders come from the people here.

so now...we have a president that couldn't even remember the word "God" in a speech and the name of the person he was running against...and was surprised in 2014 that there could be a clean and articulate african american politician..  Murica!

No matter how many times you recycle your shit, it won't change a thing. It still stinks of desperation. Everyone is human and screws up.  Some people (trump) don't care how they hurt people and some people (Biden) demonstrate that they do.   

Your measure of a man is selfish and self serving.  You are intentionally blind when it serves your purpose.  If there are people that hate Americans for being Americans, then for some of them, it is because of people like you.

As has been pointed out, lots of people want to come here.  It can't be all that bad in the eyes of the world.

BTW

“Murica,” also spelled “Merica,” was derived from the way an uneducated American would pronounce “America.” It signifies extreme or absurd patriotism. It is the epitome of freedom, but taken to the max, to the point where it becomes nearly ironic, or worse, just plain stupid.

Do you realize how thoroughly you insult yourself when you use that expression?

Mark Salo wrote:
This started out by talking of vulgarities.

I understand.  You're not concerned about the fact that he's blocking Biden from entering the White House unless he can "prove" all 80 million votes are legit.  But you ARE questioning the vulgarities, because it was so long ago.

Okay, okay.  How about Haitian and African "shithole countries" (Donald Trump in his role as President) from 2018?

Personally, while I think that the comments are very revealing (confirming what we already know about the man), I'd suggest that there are far more important issues than his language...

JustHenry wrote:
We had to pass Obamacare without knowing what was in it (per Nancy Pelosi - Yes a DIRECT QUOTE) so why can't we repeal it without knowing what the replacement would look like?  Simple question.

Actually, not a direct quote.  Not even an accurate paraphrase.

Fleming Design wrote:
It is partly because of things like this statement that Europeans and Canadians paint us with that brush of being stupid.

+1

JustHenry wrote:
Yes, that was a pretty stupid thing for Nancy to say wasn't it?  It was also pretty stupid of the leftstream media to let her get away with it and not roast her for it for years to come afterward. But here we are.

Do you think doubling down on inaccurate information makes the post less stupid?  Do you think making party line accusations regarding media bias is indicative of a reasoned comment?

Pelosi said, “We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.”  Why was there controversy that was obscuring the contents?  (Because the contents were available.)   The Republican party was misrepresenting the bill just as they misrepresented the health care system in Canada.  If you look at the entire text of Pelosi's speech, and other things she said in that time, your argument falls into the ash heap.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pelos … -is-in-it/

Mark Salo wrote:
This started out by talking of vulgarities.

It started out talking about  "... vulgarities, ETC."
His vulgarities are unforced errors and there are many.

https://www.voanews.com/usa/us-politics … al-decorum

The vulgarity president:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/19/us/p … guage.html

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/ … ty-1456178

https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/ … dates-2020

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/1 … aff-430155

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl … 16386.html

Mark Salo wrote:
This started out by talking of vulgarities.

When The President of the United States, on his first day in office, goes to the most sacred spot in the intelligence community, the Memorial Wall at CIA headquarters which honors the community's colleagues who gave their LIVES defending the people of the United States and their democracy, and LIES about an inane and false complaint about crowd size, in effect pissing on the floor, THAT IS AS VULGAR AS IT GETS.