J Stills wrote:
Hey everyone, I know this is a bit of a stupid question. But...what do photographers do with nude photos?

I have a few models asking if I want to shoot them nude, but want to charge $50-$100 for them. My question is, what are photographers doing with these photos besides uploading them to a portfolio or album? Are they selling them somewhere to recoup their costs and make their money back?

Thanks for the info!

OP,

You ask a very good question and one I'm sure more than a few have pondered but didn't dare ask in these forums.  Good for you, none the less.

I would have to say whatever your agreement with the model allows.  I've never been a fan of only one party making money for the collaborative work of a few.  If a model wants to sell the images you take, she should pay you.  The same should be said for photographers.  I've known more than a few models who never worried about someone sharing or selling images of them UNTIL it became an issue for them later in life.  I've had a few models ask me later on if they could sell images we'd created together.  My answer was simple.  I'll sell you the copyright and you can do whatever you want with them.

I don't see where shooting nudes should be treated any different than any other kind of images you create, except when it comes to the issue of mutual compensation.  Create stunning works that you're happy with and use them as you feel and according to the agreements you sign. 

Best of luck in all you do.

J Stills wrote:
Hey everyone, I know this is a bit of a stupid question. But...what do photographers do with nude photos?

I have a few models asking if I want to shoot them nude, but want to charge $50-$100 for them. My question is, what are photographers doing with these photos besides uploading them to a portfolio or album? Are they selling them somewhere to recoup their costs and make their money back?

Thanks for the info!

I only shoot nudes to sell. Back in the 90s I started publishing a photozine 4 times a year and will be releasing my 150th issue in October. I also have a "dorm poster" business where I produce about 20 new 11x17 poster each Fall to coincide with "back to school". For the last 10 years I've made more money selling topless and implied polaroids than anything else. That market is white hot and will take all that I can produce. Honestly, I wish I had time to do more shoots.

There are many outlets for selling nude photos. Photographers often solicit models with prospects of "coffee table" books and "gallery shows". Sure that might happen sometimes but, in the real world, neither of these avenues actually make money for the average hack photographer. It's mostly a bullshit line to get girls naked.

Many hobbists will tell you that nudes don't sell, that's not true. There is a large market for nudes and implied photos that Most people know nothing  about. There is a middle ground between black and white gallery quality bodyscapes and porn where there is money to be made.

goofus  wrote:
like all of my photographs: the digitals are on one of several hard drives, film negs are in boxes in my closet - selects are in various online 'portfolio' sites...and sometimes I will make a PoD book on some theme that sells exactly two copies (my own copies).. The pix may or may not be downloaded by the models themselves and used however they want


and when I croak.. the digitals will eventually 'time out'.. and the negs hopefully end up at the goodwill where they will be 'discovered'

Goofus you made me laugh!  Thank you.

Your comment about negatives and Goodwill made me think of a time I was shopping for props at a junk/antique/more junk shop.  There was an old, large horn Victrola in the corner with one of those quarter inch thick 78 speed records on it.  Two kids are looking wide eyed at it when one says to the other, "Look at the size of that CD!"  It was one of this I almost pissed myself laughing moments.

Thanks for the chuckle.  By the way which Goodwill do you think they'll use?

Todd Meredith wrote:
By the way which Goodwill do you think they'll use?

I'll ask my kid

goofus  wrote:
like all of my photographs: the digitals are on one of several hard drives, film negs are in boxes in my closet - selects are in various online 'portfolio' sites...and sometimes I will make a PoD book on some theme that sells exactly two copies (my own copies).. The pix may or may not be downloaded by the models themselves and used however they want


and when I croak.. the digitals will eventually 'time out'.. and the negs hopefully end up at the goodwill where they will be 'discovered'

My friend, I love your humor!  That is hilarious!  Oh by the way, I'd be happy to help out with those boxes of negatives ... 

goofus  wrote:
like all of my photographs: the digitals are on one of several hard drives, film negs are in boxes in my closet - selects are in various online 'portfolio' sites...and sometimes I will make a PoD book on some theme that sells exactly two copies (my own copies).. The pix may or may not be downloaded by the models themselves and used however they want


and when I croak.. the digitals will eventually 'time out'.. and the negs hopefully end up at the goodwill where they will be 'discovered'

Have you ever thought about a negative scanner to turn your hardcore negatives into digital files?  I've never used one but can definitely see the value in having one, especially in your case.  I'm sure you've got a boatload of great work in negatives you'd like to preserve somehow.  From what I've seen on B&H, they're not really all that expensive.

Just a thought.  Of course it would cut all of us out of searching through Goodwill stores on your demise but I'm sure we'd all place the needs of the art world ahead of ourselves.

Todd Meredith wrote:

Have you ever thought about a negative scanner to turn your hardcore negatives into digital files?  I've never used one but can definitely see the value in having one, especially in your case.  I'm sure you've got a boatload of great work in negatives you'd like to preserve somehow.  From what I've seen on B&H, they're not really all that expensive.

Just a thought.  Of course it would cut all of us out of searching through Goodwill stores on your demise but I'm sure we'd all place the needs of the art world ahead of ourselves.

True! In fact, the go-to model in high-end art studios and galleries is only about $800. Of course they're sending out for drum scans on anything they REALLY like, but still - it's cheaper and easier than you might think.

I've shot and scanned for years. There are also a couple particularly clever folks on this site that shoot, scan, edit, make a digital negative of their edited files, and print analog.

Alexandra Vincent wrote:
Most photographers on MM, who are focusing on nudes, do so as a hobby. At least in the US, there is a niche industry of models who primarily market themselves to hobbyist photographers for figural arts and glamour nudes. Some travel throughout the country and/or internationally to do this work. It was my primary income for many years - and it was both tough and extremely rewarding.

As a traveling nude model, you are expected to be able to withstand challenging outdoor conditions, such as shoots in very hot or cold places (I have shot nude for 6 hours straight in the desert, and I have posed naked in snow and in a very cold river). You are also expected to be physically strong, flexible and willing to take risks in order to fulfill your clients' creative visions. I have been suspended from a railroad trestle, and hung upside down from my ankles, over a busy intersection two stories up - and these were certainly not isolated incidents. Risking being caught trespassing to get into shoot locations, and having police called when a passerby spots a nude photoshoot going on also just comes with the territory. Other aspects of this work include long commutes - often 300 and 400 miles of driving at a time, overnight flights to make an early morning call time, and a general willingness to make your work your entire life. Models are mostly alone while traveling, and since most regular citizens will not understand and/or be prejudiced towards nude models, you have to be extremely private and keep to yourself about it. This can be alienating at times, when you are touring multiple cities alone, with your only real social interaction being with the photographers and artists you are working with, throughout the days. It's very important to travel with a laptop, or good phone plan, so you can have regular communication with your partner/spouse and loved ones back home; this helps a great deal.

Unfortunately, the lives and work of professional freelance models is misunderstood. When people post online asking questions, I feel compelled to answer. I've known numerous women who started modeling nude with great intentions, but ultimately didn't last, due to the long hours, exhaustion and the intense physical demands on their bodies. Being your own boss requires good business and marketing skills as well, which many people struggle with. I think it's important that people, especially on websites such as these, understand that there is exponentially more to the work we do than just "stand there and look pretty." Being a nude model is not "easy cash," or "just a job." It requires an enduring sense of passion, commitment, and also small business management skills.

This is a very polite and informative answer. You're my new hero.

Todd Meredith wrote:

Have you ever thought about a negative scanner to turn your hardcore negatives into digital files?  I've never used one but can definitely see the value in having one, especially in your case.  I'm sure you've got a boatload of great work in negatives you'd like to preserve somehow.  From what I've seen on B&H, they're not really all that expensive.

Just a thought.  Of course it would cut all of us out of searching through Goodwill stores on your demise but I'm sure we'd all place the needs of the art world ahead of ourselves.

oh.. I scan all my negs..I rarely go to the darkroom anymore.. I just prefer the way film looks..even scanned.. but still.. digital files? they will go away.. film sticks around..I have some glass plate stuff from the 1890's that I can still scan/print... thus I have far greater hope for my film stuff than I do my digital stuff... digital is just...transitory

A Thousand Words  wrote:

This is a very polite and informative answer. You're my new hero.

Heroism is a superpower!  ;-)

Alexandra Vincent wrote:
Most photographers on MM, who are focusing on nudes, do so as a hobby. At least in the US, there is a niche industry of models who primarily market themselves to hobbyist photographers for figural arts and glamour nudes. Some travel throughout the country and/or internationally to do this work. It was my primary income for many years - and it was both tough and extremely rewarding.

Huge thanks to everyone who took the time to respond to my question. And extraordinary thanks to Alexandra for her heroic answer and insights from both the model's point of view and the mindset of photographers.

I've realized through this TF Photoshoot that I really like taking pictures of models who normally pose nude, but with clothes on. I think it's because their sensuality really comes out and shines through, with things like body language, facial expression, etc,

Here are the photos that I took, let me know what you think:



P.S. big thank you to model Ella Grin for working with me and doing a TFP shoot. She's amazing and was super easy to work with.

J Stills wrote:
...let me know what you think:

I think those are photos of a model with clothes on. For anything beyond that you need to post in the critique section.

In keeping with the topic of your thread here: what do you do with photos like that?

Alexandra Vincent wrote:
Most photographers on MM, who are focusing on nudes, do so as a hobby. At least in the US, there is a niche industry of models who primarily market themselves to hobbyist photographers for figural arts and glamour nudes. Some travel throughout the country and/or internationally to do this work. It was my primary income for many years - and it was both tough and extremely rewarding.

As a traveling nude model, you are expected to be able to withstand challenging outdoor conditions, such as shoots in very hot or cold places (I have shot nude for 6 hours straight in the desert, and I have posed naked in snow and in a very cold river). You are also expected to be physically strong, flexible and willing to take risks in order to fulfill your clients' creative visions. I have been suspended from a railroad trestle, and hung upside down from my ankles, over a busy intersection two stories up - and these were certainly not isolated incidents. Risking being caught trespassing to get into shoot locations, and having police called when a passerby spots a nude photoshoot going on also just comes with the territory. Other aspects of this work include long commutes - often 300 and 400 miles of driving at a time, overnight flights to make an early morning call time, and a general willingness to make your work your entire life. Models are mostly alone while traveling, and since most regular citizens will not understand and/or be prejudiced towards nude models, you have to be extremely private and keep to yourself about it. This can be alienating at times, when you are touring multiple cities alone, with your only real social interaction being with the photographers and artists you are working with, throughout the days. It's very important to travel with a laptop, or good phone plan, so you can have regular communication with your partner/spouse and loved ones back home; this helps a great deal.

Unfortunately, the lives and work of professional freelance models is misunderstood. When people post online asking questions, I feel compelled to answer. I've known numerous women who started modeling nude with great intentions, but ultimately didn't last, due to the long hours, exhaustion and the intense physical demands on their bodies. Being your own boss requires good business and marketing skills as well, which many people struggle with. I think it's important that people, especially on websites such as these, understand that there is exponentially more to the work we do than just "stand there and look pretty." Being a nude model is not "easy cash," or "just a job." It requires an enduring sense of passion, commitment, and also small business management skills.

You've set out the position of the travelling model very well indeed. My compliments on a well worded answer, and my respects for the work and long hours you've obviously undertaken. I am not worthy...

AndysPrints wrote:
Many hobbists will tell you that nudes don't sell, that's not true. There is a large market for nudes and implied photos that Most people know nothing  about. There is a middle ground between black and white gallery quality bodyscapes and porn where there is money to be made.

There are websites like Bentbox, but unless I ran this idea by a model specifically prior to shooting (or publishing), I would be hesitant to use it, since it also has porn, and most nude models don't want to be associated with porn in any way. Even if what you're  doing is just artistic, simply having it on the same website that also has porn wouldn't be a good association I'm guessing.

Then again, the last model I shot suggested *to me* that I use bentbox and had no problem with it, so maybe I'm imagining things....

J Stills wrote:
Here are the photos that I took, let me know what you think:


.

So what do you do with photos such as above?  Will they have a chance in an art gallery?  How do you plan to recoup any expense (including time) in make them photos.

M E Y E R wrote:
0
I hope no one is trying to sell someone's nude images without their knowledge, even if they were paid for their time. It should be clear if any images are going to be submitted to any magazines online or otherwise, websites, ect. Many models are also trying to do other things in their life, working regular jobs in the community, acting, many of these models are real human beings with families and even , dun dun dun, children, husbands, ect, so yeah, selling someone's photos is a 'big no no' unless it is clear from the start and the model agress of course.
Ted

Generally I would agree with you if no model release was signed, However, depending on the conditions in the model release I would say the photographer could be totally within his/her rights to publish nude photos of the model without their knowledge, and the model would know the implications of the release.

Most model releases would contain the following statements or word to this effect:

i) The Photographer and licensees or assignees may have unrestricted use of these for whatever purpose,
including advertising, with any reasonable retouching or alteration.

ii) Any reproductions shall be deemed to represent an imaginary person, and further agree that the Photographer or any person authorised by or acting on his or her behalf may use the above mentioned photographs or any reproductions of them
for any advertising purposes or for the purpose of illustrating any wording, and agree that no such wording shall be considered to be attributed to the model personally unless his/hert name is used.

and...

iii) Provided the model's name is not mentioned in connection with any other statement or wording which
may be attributed to the model personally,

The main point of a model release is the image is of an "imaginary person", and this is to enable the photographer or copyright owner to use the images for whatever purposes they wish (usually commercial purposes which generally means in most Western countries promoting or advertising) provided the model is not identified by name.

There may be other conditions attached to a model release which may restrict the use of the images.

But, if no model release is signed, then I would have to agree with you. As an aside, I wonder how many images in the 2  "Mature Content" MM contests know their images have been submitted to the contest, and if they have signed a model release or otherwise agreed.