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Nudes & $$$
If you do not model consistently, and a lot, ask yourself, how much money is there in it? Enough to justify the cons? Jun 02 12 06:39 am Link Are we really having this discussion again? Jun 02 12 06:41 am Link CasaDiBerardi wrote: Be careful with this statement, as you might be guilty as charged Jun 02 12 06:42 am Link Money should not be the driving factor for the OP to pose nude. OP if that is the only reason for nude modeling then don't do it. The reason is not morals but more about ethics. The OP trepidations about posing nude will be captured by the camera and each creative shot will be a struggle for both photographer and model. Go do something else... Jun 02 12 06:43 am Link Fred Gerhart wrote: 1 Jun 02 12 06:52 am Link CasaDiBerardi wrote: I don't do them for "private collections," but I have shot some for friends who don't want to be nude models, but just want to do a shoot for themselves. I'm still trying to figure out what I can do with my work. It doesn't fit into many standards that I know of. Jun 02 12 07:29 am Link Aaron Lewis Photography wrote: Hmmm. Since people are posting, I would say "yes" we are. Its pretty obvious. Kind of a stupid question. Jun 02 12 08:08 am Link OK, as a European fashion and runway model, I once said I would never do nudes. However, here in USA, the market is different. I found that I got work much easier and much better as a nude model. Now I personally happen to prefer nude work(less wardrobe problems, less to worry about schleping along on a trip). I would like to point out that its not for everyone, and it has no bearing whatsoever on my personal life. It is my career choice and thats all. I am VERY happily married. I have a young daughter. In my personal life, Im a untraconservative Republican from the South...not exactly who you might think would be a nude-erotic-fetish glamour model who frequently does g/g video, right? I have a degree in Engineering. I could easily get a desk job and watch my ass grow, but I chose modelling as my career. Its much more fun and I like being naked, of course. In the end, everyone must make his/her own decision about nudes or not. BUT, please dont judge the person in the picture for his/her choices. Jun 02 12 08:26 am Link Anzhelika Yakimenko wrote: I like this point of view a lot. Jun 02 12 08:34 am Link when you have a nude model you can do whatever you want (within their limits). the traveling nude models have brought some of the best fashion wardrobe i've seen. also, it's not so hard to get clothed models on trade whereas you might have to pay a nude model. just supply and demand. if you do nudes those images will be on the internet for a long time for all to see (friends, co-workers, employers) so don't do them unless you're ok with that. but i can see covered nudes now on the cover of magazines at safeway and they don't even put then in a brown wrapper or anything. things seem to have gone to extremes a bit with the religious crazies trying to throw us back into the stone age but meanwhile covered nudes are on the magazine covers. i shoot nudes partly because the models don't have extensive fashion wardrobe but they always have lingerie and of course with full nudes you don't have to worry about wardrobe at all. well, ok, shooting nekkid chicks is fun, too. Jun 02 12 08:40 am Link i worked with a playboy model and put a couple images up at istockphoto. so far i've made like $2. i can retire! supposedly selling to porn sites isn't what it once was either. but i think the model would need to have signed a full release for that to happen anyways (at least legally). once a photo is on the internet it can indeed go anywhere (like voyeurweb). the photographer and model have no control over that (aside from the mayhem portfolio-level permission features). CasaDiBerardi wrote: Jun 02 12 08:45 am Link I agree with AJScalzitti that it's basic supply and demand, but I think it's the supply of nude models, not the public demand to pay for nude images. While a lower supply of nude models may mean many models are able to charge more for nudes, or charge for nudes when they can't charge for other things, it does not mean that any model is worth a lot, just because she gets nude, a mistake I see many newbie models get very frustrated with. In contrast to what one previous poster said, I find nudes are about the only thing I can't seem to make any profit on, and I certainly have no reason to pay a nude model who does not suit my needs. Jun 02 12 08:53 am Link Dan Hudson wrote: +1,000 Jun 02 12 08:55 am Link CasaDiBerardi wrote: People like sexual images. They draw more attention. Sex sells. Obviously it's a judgment call on you if you want to do it or not. But I would say unless you feel really confident about doing it, you won't enjoy it as much or may even feel guilty about it later on. So I agree with other photographers that have said you should have the desire to do it without money as motivation before deciding to make that choice based on just $100-$250. You said it was tempting so you must have some desire. If you do start leaning toward it, you can always use an alias for your modeling name. That way you can avoid some (not all) of those future ramifications associated with the social stigma of posing nude. Best of luck! Jun 02 12 04:06 pm Link  Jun 02 12 04:19 pm Link RacerXPhoto wrote: You're right, I'm out of touch. I'm trying to be more in touch, but I meet so many liars and untrustworthy people, so I'm confused about who is actually in touch with reality and those who have lost touch and maintain a facade of knowing "what's going on." Jun 02 12 06:13 pm Link MKPhoto wrote: I admit, I like feeling sexy. Jun 02 12 06:14 pm Link Dan Hudson wrote: +1 Jun 02 12 06:38 pm Link Every photographer has a different reason for wanting to photograph women in different states of undress. There is certainly a lot more room for creative expression than with an attractive woman in a pretty dress. Looking back...and lets say you actually enjoyed some level of nude modeling and those 40 photographers paid $50 to $100 an hour for a two-hour session...you would have grossed between $4000 to $8000 with your modeling. That could go a long way toward inventory for your jewelry business. Going a step further, your jewelry business can last you a lifetime if you manage it properly, however, your demand as a model with likely change as you age. There are exceptions, but you could take your guaranteed 10 years of nude modeling and run...if it is something you enjoy...and then manage the business you grew during that 10 years. Now then...also being a marketing guy with consulting credentials...I can tell you that if you were to personally model some of your more elegant jewelry with implied topless, you would increase traffic to your website, and also sell more jewelry. Jun 02 12 07:21 pm Link I am confused as to why it's necessary to bring up the "lucrativeness of the porn industry" if you're inquiring about nude shooting. How does one automatically imply the other? I am an experienced and very active nude model. I don't shoot porn. Not that I would judge anybody for doing that; but it is far from what I do. Artistic nudity. Period. But you already know what this is; you have done a bronze body cast. No, I've never shot nudes out of desperation. I am an artist--a painter, a photographer--who also happens to express myself through the art of nudity. Jun 02 12 07:28 pm Link CasaDiBerardi wrote: I would hate to have a model shoot nude with me for money when she didn't really want to do it. Or, for that matter, shoot clothed with me when she didn't really want to do it. Jun 02 12 09:58 pm Link LA StarShooter wrote: Please elaborate. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like to hear more about how "easy" it is. Jun 02 12 10:01 pm Link Anzhelika Yakimenko wrote: You sound like a fascinating person. Jun 02 12 10:03 pm Link In part it's a supply and demand issue. Not all models are willing to pose nude, many of those who will are selective about who they'll do it for. And in recent years, the more experienced art models have gotten a lot more savvy about marketing themselves, and in networking with each other. That said, it differs to some extent from region to region. Also, photographers pay for very different reasons. While perceived scarcity relative to demand is part of it, there can be other factors. A photographer who has lots of experience/a quality portfolio of nudes/a good personality and ability to quickly build rapport with models/etc will often have trade opportunities for nude shoots, and even be approached by models offering to trade (not as common as it was several years ago, at least by models with more than 10 minutes of experience). If one of those photographers chooses to pay (and some of them do), it's because they have a way to recover the cost + a profit from a client, or because they seek a particular look or type of experience that isn't readily available, or because they don't have time to seek out trade opportunities or aren't willing to wait til the next one presents itself... sometimes the muse strikes now, not next week  Sometimes it's more cost effective to just contact a known quantity with lots of experience and pay her than to spend hours adjusting poses with a newbie. I guess what I'm saying is that there are a lot of reasons photographers seek nude models, and a lot of ways they approach getting them in front of their lens. There are also a lot of reasons models choose to pose nude (or not), and whatever that choice is, that's fine with me. Personally I see no reason to push someone who isn't ready for whatever reason, when so many others are willing. In fact, I don't really understand photographers who do try to push models into doing nudes when they aren't comfortable. Well OK, I guess maybe I do understand, but I doubt it has much to do with getting quality photos, because that doesn't often happen when the model is uncomfortable. So... just accept that many photographers (many men?) have a one track mind, and you'll likely continue to get nude offers no matter what your profile says. Yes, you can probably get more work doing nudes, and get paid more for it, than you can doing clothed work (exception for agency-signed girls), but having worked with lots of well known art models, I don't know anyone who is getting rich from it, in fact most of them could make more in a traditional job. Typically it's a lifestyle choice, a way to travel and see the world and get paid enough to survive while doing it; or a way to avoid punching a time clock or being stuck in an office five days a week. It all comes down to personal choices. Jun 02 12 10:30 pm Link CasaDiBerardi wrote: I thoroughly enjoy the money and the art.. Jun 02 12 10:46 pm Link CasaDiBerardi wrote: Sounds like you were working with the wrong group of people. I'll make it simple. If you're not 100% comfortable, let alone 100% committed to posing nude, then there's no need in doing them in the first. Money should never be a motivator in any career pursuits. Isn't it better to do something you love, even if it it didn't pay alot than having financial success in something you hate? Also, comparing nude modeling to porn is comparing the soapbox races to the Indy 500 because they involve racing. Is anyone gonna mistake this type of racing for that? Jun 02 12 11:19 pm Link CasaDiBerardi wrote: maybe they are asking so much because you have a My Body Cast in Bronze photo... or maybe because you dont have much of a portfolio? models that dont have a high quality port usually get zapped by the pervs on here... Jun 02 12 11:58 pm Link Nude modelling is one way available to a young woman of monetizing an inherent commodity value that she has in this society. Another is cocktail waitressing, and yet another is llama herdering. Each will appeal to a different subset of women with different individual outlooks, tolerances and needs. As for myself I photograph young women nude and enjoy it. I would never bother photographing them with clothes because, frankly, women's clothes boor me (as does their cosmetics). I pay the models a rather modest blue-color crafts-person wage for the activity because with the amount of time I need and the requirements it seems to be a job. I regard their work as a craft and at times a self expression or even art but primarily as an interesting gender performance, and in that, a skilled labor. I have a great concern with the quality and meaning of the resulting images and am always trying to improve them both technically and in the depth of the vision. Because my work addresses issues such as eroticism, gender, the relation of image to self and the uses of the body, it's greatly beneficial to me when the people I work with speak about how they view their activity, meaning it has for them, and what they wish or do not wish to do. I start these conversations on, or previous to the first session and they then, along with my developing interest or obsessions, become the basis for the progression of the work. I liked the questions you started with. As for the question of desperation, I find many of the young women I work with are aware of the money but for most it's a fairly minor part of their overall financial profile: an extra job that's useful in it's wage and time flexibility. Where I see the desperation is in their search for a place in the world, their relationships, their sexuality, their position as a commodity and a person, advantages and problems dealing with male desire, struggle with expectation and social restrictions, etc.. Sorry, this is a bit rambling, thanks for the post and best of luck. Jun 03 12 04:37 am Link Ok. So some 50 photographers out of the hundreds of thousands photographers of photographers on MM have asked you to pose nude. Why do some photographers shoot nudes? Because even with paying the model's fee, they cost less to produce than anything else. Shooting nudes is not as dependent on wardrobe, MUA's, set design and construction, or even a concept. They are cheap. The "lucrative" porn business? When was the last time you heard of a porn actor grossing $40,000,000 in a year? Now, count the ones that do on the big screen. But, if you have the expressive range and talent of your left elbow, then maybe that's all there is that is left. Part of the thinking demand/supply paradigm is left over from a time before you were born and before the internet. However, refer back to an earlier post where a photographer noted that a stock photo of a Playboy model earned him the whole of $2. When the internet jumped out there, Bob Guccione sold off his interests in Penthouse Magazine. That was nearly twenty years ago. And have the nude models I have known been in it for the money? No. The truth is that if they were in something for the money, in comparison to a lot of nude gigs out there, they would make more money as a plumber, painter, car mechanic, etc. And, yes, I do shoot clothed models and they do sell. Is there any way you can modify your portfolio to increase an expressive range and reduce the likelihood that someone might think you want to pose nude? Jun 03 12 05:23 am Link Wysiwyg Photography wrote: CasaDiBerardi wrote: Nope, not the same thing.. I understand what you are saying, however, I am having trouble agreeing with you because I have never seen an example of a photo that arouses and evokes sexual excitement that does not accentuate the female body. Can you please provide me with a fully clothed pornographic photo where the individual is NOT wearing tight fitting clothing? Jun 03 12 05:29 am Link Mae West got in trouble with the censors all the time. Among complaints were, "It's not what you said, but how you said it." Jun 03 12 05:44 am Link CasaDiBerardi wrote: Some people (not me!) find this kind of thing extremely exciting.... Jun 03 12 05:46 am Link CasaDiBerardi wrote: Since the rules don't allow us to link to "adult images" in the forums, what you're asking for is a violation. Jun 03 12 06:37 am Link Art of the nude wrote: Keep going.... Jun 03 12 06:46 am Link At this point I am only responding to the OP. I may come back later to give more insight ^_^ I do not think it is a matter of there simply being more value to a nude body than a clothed body. I am sure there are fashion models out there who get paid much more than at least most nude models. However, there is a sort of value in the whole supply and demand aspect. There are many fewer models willing to pose nude and even fewer who do so comfortably, enjoying it, and pose well, etc. These models are in fairly high demand, but relatively low supply (similar to girls with fashion stats in a way). Nude photos are often more likely to be sources of revenue either via selling to collectors, selling individual prints to people who appreciate the form, or simply because of sex appeal in the case of some styles. Because of this, the average MM nude model is more likely to get paid than a clothed MM model because the photographer is much more likely to be able to make his money back through the images. I have shot with photographers who have paid me to shoot nudes primarily for entry into art exhibitions or to sell fine art prints. I shoot mainly art nudes, so this makes sense. I also shoot sets of myself in various nude styles mainly art, sensual glamour, and vintage style pin-up, plus a bit of more nudist styles (doing normal things naked, but not "sexy"). I have these sets on a site called Zivity where people cast votes. Each votes earns me 55 cents. I also shoot pieces just for the sake of my own artistic creation and to sell prints (hopefully). I also hope one day to be able to exhibit some of my nude self portraits. For me it is a deeply open and honest form of art. At one time, shortly after I began nude modeling, I did try to turn nude modeling into a "job." However, I was living in East TN with no ability to travel and there really is little sustainable market for a nude model there. It became a frustration and a burden. I got to the point where I was frustrated at the beginning of every shoot and trying to book. I loved the actual process of shooting, but the dependency on the money was killing my creativity. I finally gave up on it and just took the projects that I liked The funny thing is, if I did not mind being busy all the time shooting, it probably could be a pretty decent job for me now, but I would lose out on other things I would like to do so I have not pursued that. At this point I only model for projects I like and I am thankful that I am able to do what I love as a hobby that sometimes creates income versus a job. Jun 03 12 07:22 am Link Mnemosyne Photography wrote: +1 Jun 03 12 07:40 am Link CasaDiBerardi wrote: I mention this with some trepidation because I do not wish to shock you but perhaps using Google images and the search terms "gay" or even "men" would be educational. Jun 03 12 07:41 am Link Aaron Lewis Photography wrote: Colorado Images wrote: Roger that Jun 03 12 07:41 am Link Aaron Lewis Photography wrote: No, we're all just a figment of your imagination. I'm really the conflicted argumentative voice in the back of your head that's sayin'...nvmd Jun 03 12 07:50 am Link Jun 03 12 08:04 am Link |
(Lolz!) 
You creative bastard, dreaming us all up like this! Wowzers!!!!! 